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sillyakchick

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:08pm

meblonde01 wrote:
The bottom line in this conversation will lead into another topic. The truth of the matter is. If you want to go to hell Kill your baby! One that is either already born or one that is not. It is still killing. If a fetus was not killed it would turn into a living human being.. Thus you are taken a life.. No if's, ands, or buts about that one!!!


Wasn't there a Monty Python skit "every sperm is sacred"? where do you draw the line? Is protected sex the same as homicide? After all, you are denying life to an organism which could have become a child. If you use a condom, you are preventing the birth of something that would have turned into a living human being.

Why do you care whether I go to Hell or not? There would be more room in "heaven" for you. On the other hand, since your very own Bible indicates that you should "judge not, lest ye be judged", then aren't you bound for damnation right along with me?
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Kypros

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:20pm

Dannzibelle wrote:
Kypros wrote:
Eiri wrote:
Hell does not exist.

Sorry to be pedantic, but that's a completely false statement. How do you know that Hell does not exist?

Nobody knows if it does or doesn't it is a matter of personal belief in my opinion

Yeah, exactly. But saying "Hell does not exist" indicates it is a fact, which nobody knows.
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meblonde01

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:30pm

The sperm is not a child nor can be a child on it's own Big diff,, I am not judging. I am quoting one of the ten commandments and that is not judging. If one believes in God. And they take a life They are going to go to hell. That is not judging that is the word of God.
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meblonde01

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:38pm

I knew this would get off the topic. Maybe we could get back to abortion debate and put this heaven or hell topic into another forum..
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Birch

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:42pm

meblonde01 wrote:
I knew this would get off the topic. Maybe we could get back to abortion debate and put this heaven or hell topic into another forum..


What clued you in that it would get off topic?

Maybe it's when you said "The bottom line in this conversation will lead into another topic. The truth of the matter is. If you want to go to hell Kill your baby!"

Laughing
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 04-16-07 13:46pm

meblonde01 wrote:
The sperm is not a child nor can be a child on it's own Big diff,, I am not judging. I am quoting one of the ten commandments and that is not judging. If one believes in God. And they take a life They are going to go to hell. That is not judging that is the word of God.


Some would consider them to be one and the same. I see no difference between sperm, ova, and zygote. They are cells with human potential. They must have the proper conditions in order to be birthed and become children.

But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.
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Carifairy

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Posted: 04-16-07 16:03pm

Happily married people, like myself, have abortions because we do not want to be pregnant.[at that time]

Women in monogamous relationships have abortions.

Women of all religions, races, socioeconomic backgrounds, and income levels, have abortions.

I work in an abortion clinic, so I know full well the types of women that choose an abortion.
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meblonde01

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Posted: 04-16-07 16:30pm

Birch wrote:
meblonde01 wrote:
I knew this would get off the topic. Maybe we could get back to abortion debate and put this heaven or hell topic into another forum..


What clued you in that it would get off topic?


Maybe it's when you said "The bottom line in this conversation will lead into another topic. The truth of the matter is. If you want to go to hell Kill your baby!"

Laughing


Good observation Birch.. I sort of think I knew that one.. Duh..
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Tylanas

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Posted: 04-16-07 17:51pm

Your belief that hell exists means you must now prove its existance and where it is and you must account for all of the souls in it.

Please start now.
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nightangel73

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Posted: 04-16-07 20:33pm

sillyakchick wrote:


But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.


it's viceversa. The ones who believe in god are the ones safe. The ones who don't are the ones not safe.
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Tylanas

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Posted: 04-16-07 21:14pm

nightangel73 wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:


But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.


it's viceversa. The ones who believe in god are the ones safe. The ones who don't are the ones not safe.


Apparently, you have to be "born again" in order to go to heaven. Simply believing is not good enough. Sorry, nightangel. You're doomed with me!
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Birch

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Posted: 04-16-07 22:08pm

Eiri wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:


But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.


it's viceversa. The ones who believe in god are the ones safe. The ones who don't are the ones not safe.


Apparently, you have to be "born again" in order to go to heaven. Simply believing is not good enough. Sorry, nightangel. You're doomed with me!


She is waiting until after her wedding so her spiritual hymen can be "born again" as well. Wink
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Tylanas

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Posted: 04-16-07 22:30pm

Birch wrote:
Eiri wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:


But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.


it's viceversa. The ones who believe in god are the ones safe. The ones who don't are the ones not safe.


Apparently, you have to be "born again" in order to go to heaven. Simply believing is not good enough. Sorry, nightangel. You're doomed with me!


She is waiting until after her wedding so her spiritual hymen can be "born again" as well. Wink


Haha XD
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nightangel73

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Posted: 04-16-07 22:41pm

Birch wrote:
Eiri wrote:
nightangel73 wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:


But I am glad that the only people who will go to Hell are those who believe in God. Which makes me safe.


it's viceversa. The ones who believe in god are the ones safe. The ones who don't are the ones not safe.


Apparently, you have to be "born again" in order to go to heaven. Simply believing is not good enough. Sorry, nightangel. You're doomed with me!


She is waiting until after her wedding so her spiritual hymen can be "born again" as well. Wink


that's right, only six months away for my hymen to be born again! Smile
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jemmini6

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Posted: 04-28-07 01:05am

I don't know why people can't just keep to their own beliefs and not try to push their versions of the truth on every one else. To start off, I think that whatever you believe is what will be true for you. If you believe there is a heaven or a hell, then in your afterlife, you go to whichever you believe you are supposed to go to. If you believe that death is the end of everything and there is nothing after you die, then there will be nothing for you after you die. No matter how much the two argue, the person that believes in heaven cannot make the other believe in it too and vise versa.

This premise applies to abortion. If you do not believe in abortion, then if you get pregnant, it is a wonderful blessing that you can have with out aborting it. However, if you believe in the right to choose, then if you get pregnant, you can decide if it is the right time to have a baby and choose to keep it or not. But why does everyone always have to push their beliefs on everyone else. People need to accept the fact they are not always "right" because what you may think is right for you...is not always going to be right for someone else.

I'm just thankful that in this country, we have the right to choose. I myself thought I may have been pregnant recently, and if that was the case, abortion would be the choice I would make at this point in my life. I am not in the position currently where I could raise a child, or even carry a pregnancy to term.

I do think, however, that abortion should not be used as casually as a birth control method as some women do. Prevention should always be the first step, but accidents happen and we should be able to have options in that case.
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Jincks013

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Posted: 04-28-07 08:13am

I am 38, in a stable relationship with a good career and my tubes tied. If I were to have a 'miracle' pregnancy I assure you I would not hesitate to abort said unwanted gestation.
I am to old IMO to raise another child. I have one daughter heading to college this fall and the other into her second year of middle school.
I am not a poor underemployed woman that PFL can try to bully.

Where does this misconception that women who abort are all middle income single women come from? I assure you that as much as sterotyping can be entertaining to read it is not very accurate.

At this stage of my life, as in my early 20's, I will not hesitate to abort and unwanted pregnancy.
Its my body and my choice.
Don't try 'moral' or the heaven and hell arguement unless you are willing to go to a philosphy forum and discuss it with me there.
Many religions over time have their own versions of heaven called Valhalla, Summer fields, Elysian Fields, yada yada yada.. same for hell.. Dante actually gave the image of a fiery hell, the vikings believed hell was a place of extreme cold.. so lets not go there atm.

Abortion is something women do, outlawing it will not in fact make it stop.

But I've a question for you..

What makes you think gestating will solve the problems that are most often quoted as the primary reasons women choose abortion?
How does gestating fix the most common reasons women consider abortion?

- Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.
- Inability to support or care for a child.
- To end an unwanted pregnancy.
- To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.
- Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. Every year, about 13,000 women choose abortion after suffering rape or incest.9
Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman's health if the pregnancy is continued.

Tell me what magic wand is waved to fix any of these issues by gestating.
Pony up.
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nightangel73

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Posted: 04-29-07 19:05pm

Jincks013 wrote:
I am 38, in a stable relationship with a good career and my tubes tied. If I were to have a 'miracle' pregnancy I assure you I would not hesitate to abort said unwanted gestation.
I am to old IMO to raise another child. I have one daughter heading to college this fall and the other into her second year of middle school.
I am not a poor underemployed woman that PFL can try to bully.

Where does this misconception that women who abort are all middle income single women come from? I assure you that as much as sterotyping can be entertaining to read it is not very accurate.

At this stage of my life, as in my early 20's, I will not hesitate to abort and unwanted pregnancy.
Its my body and my choice.
Don't try 'moral' or the heaven and hell arguement unless you are willing to go to a philosphy forum and discuss it with me there.
Many religions over time have their own versions of heaven called Valhalla, Summer fields, Elysian Fields, yada yada yada.. same for hell.. Dante actually gave the image of a fiery hell, the vikings believed hell was a place of extreme cold.. so lets not go there atm.

Abortion is something women do, outlawing it will not in fact make it stop.

But I've a question for you..

What makes you think gestating will solve the problems that are most often quoted as the primary reasons women choose abortion?
How does gestating fix the most common reasons women consider abortion?

- Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.
- Inability to support or care for a child.
- To end an unwanted pregnancy.
- To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.
- Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. Every year, about 13,000 women choose abortion after suffering rape or incest.9
Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman's health if the pregnancy is continued.

Tell me what magic wand is waved to fix any of these issues by gestating.
Pony up.


It's not that gestating will solve the problems. Nor is killing humans. Any woman who gets pregnant can find a way out having the baby. We all do find a way out when faced through difficult situations in life. You just need to believe in yourself that you can do things and things will happen. That's it.
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Tylanas

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Posted: 04-29-07 19:23pm

Women who abort do believe in themselves and things do happen.
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Jincks013

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Posted: 05-04-07 08:11am

You ((PFL)) still fail to answer the question.. how does gestating solve the problems the women most quote as the reason they decide to abort?
Sidestepping isn't going to work here
I want proof.

Does forced gestation make someone automatically ready to parent?

Does forced gestation make someone automatically financially stable enough to support a child?

Does forced gestation ensure all contraceptives are 100% reliable?

Does forced gestation automatically mature those to young to gestate? Does it repair all broken relationships? Does it cure severe medical problems? Does it make rapes, molestations or acts of incest magically not have happened? Does it make childcare immediately affordable? Does it stop abusive situations?

Can you prove to me that forced gestation has a positive impact on any of these issue and if so.. post it.
Pony up.
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_annabelle

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Posted: 05-08-07 15:56pm

Critizin wrote:
guest..... when a fetus is not fully grown it has no feelings it has no pain it is fact a parasite living off you.... -_-

good day!



i'm sorry, but obviously you don't know anything about babies, pregnancy, or abortion. ask a doctor who has performed an abortion and if they tell you the truth they will tell you that when a partial-birth abortion is preformed, the baby does indeed scream and cry. it does feel pain. it does have emotions. this may be hard for you to understand if you have never been pregnant, but that 'fetus' growing inside is a baby. not a parasite. not an alien. look up pictures of aborted 'fetuses' and then try saying that it isn't a baby. also, how can something growing inside be a parasite/alien but once it's been born it's a baby? that's about as dumb as saying a flower just sprouting isn't a flower until it's fully grown.

in reply to Jincks013: no, not everyone is able to support a child, but having the baby and giving it up for adoption is a much safer choice than having it aborted. it's simple to give up a baby for adoption. you can even just drop it off at a police station and they won't ask any questions. how easy is that? if someone just doesn't want to go through the pregnancy process, well they should learn to live with it because abortion is homicide. you are ending a baby's life, and that it is not your right to choose whether or not that baby should live when it can't even speak for itself yet.
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