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jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 808
Location: Texas
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Posted: 05-10-07 17:22pm
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| nightangel73
wrote: |
it has been said here before of women who
have aborted and then they get pregnant
and see the first ultrasound they have
felt pretty bad to think that was how
their fetus looked like when they aborted
it. Seems to happen
often. |
I have responded to this recently!
When do most abortions occur in gestation?
8
.w.e.e.k.s!
At 8
weeks, the fetus is the size of a
small kidney bean, most .women (and even
some professionals) cannot find it on an
ultrasound, and if a spontaneous abortion
occurs, the .woman will not be able to
recognize it from the large blood clots
present. In fact, .I cannot
always pick it out on the screen when we
do pre-abortion ultrasounds. At 8 weeks,
the fetus just looks like a thickening of
the yoke sac along either the right or
left side.
When do most first ultrasounds occur in
wanted pregnancy? Between 16 and
20 weeks! That's four to five
months along! There is going to be a vast
difference between an 8 week fetus and a
20 week fetus. If a woman sees her 20 week fetus
and thinks her previous 8 week abortion
looked anything .a.t .a.l.l like it, she's
either grossly uninformed or ignorant of
human development!
There's no reason for any .woman to look
at a later ultrasound and feel badly
because the two visually look nothing like one
another!
At 8 weeks, the fetus looks like a dot on
the screen that most people can't even
find. At 20 weeks, halfway through a
pregnancy, the image is vastly different.
And, there's also no gaurantee that had
the woman kept her previous pregnancy that
it would have progressed to 20 weeks. A
little over half of all pregnancies end in
a miscarriage and miscarriage rates have
only decreased since the 1970s because
some women end the pregnancy before it is
spontaneously aborted.
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milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 204
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Posted: 06-29-07 12:16pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | In this modern day and age,
not everyone is christian nor do they
adhere to christian-like philosophies.
Women, in this day and age, finally have
freedom over their body.
We ladies have the right to have sex when
we want it and as often as we want.
We have the right to control our bodies
too; and this includes removing unwanted
parasites from our wombs.
Women these days know about life, and they
do not all adhere to the ancient mythic
traditions of spiritual christianity. They
are not held down by false, ancient,
science-less interpretations of
procreation and human development.
Just as we no longer believe the globe is
flat; just as we no longer think the sun
revolves around us; so now we also know
that there is not a fully grown little
person inside the womb.
As science develops, we learn more and
more about the development of a fetus. We
learn when it feels pain for the first
time; we learn how it develops and what it
is capable of at each stage.
When this fetus is a wanted child, then it
is the miracle of biology. It is the
wonder of evolution.
When this child is unwanted, it can be a
noose on a young woman's neck. It can be
the tolling of the death bell; it can earn
her a social stigma; it can ruin her
life.
But there is a light: she has control over
her body. She can chose to give birth and
give the child up for adoption... but if
she knows about the horrors of adoption,
if she knows that preventing pain is more
important than soothing it; if she
believes that an ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure... if she knows
these things, then she has the human right
to chose abortion.
Human rights... yes, abortion is a human
right.
And I am thankful for
it. |
Ho-hum. Its been done so many times
before. Thats the problem with the
pro-abortion side; They only go by their
own loose moral opinions.
Sooooo here is a little fact for you (so i
will assume you will not use the word
parasite again):
The fetus is not a parasite.
A parasite, by biological definition,
must be a different species. No thinking
person would consider apples as parasites
of an apple tree. (However a worm in the
apple is indeed a parasite). The
biological defintion of parasite can be
found at http://www.thefreedi
ctionary.com/parasit... . Some
committed abortion supporters cling to the
etymological definition of "one who is
sustained by another without benefit to
the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month
old baby is as much of a parasite as a
fetus. Only the most despicable monsters
in world history killed the very young.
So look up the definition of parasite. And
stop using it and perhaps read a book.
Last edited by milletics on 06-29-07 12:36pm; edited 1 time in total
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stacybaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 196
Location: scotland
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Posted: 06-29-07 12:31pm
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abortions are too easy these days... just
go to your doctor and say im pregnant and
i dont want to be no questions and they
make you the appt
and this i know for a fact!
people having abortions past 4months is
absolutely terrible.... an abortion can
seem like a good thing to do at the time
but after can cause alot of emotional
problems after the realisation of whats
been done
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-29-07 13:15pm
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| milletics
wrote: |
Ho-hum. Its been done so many times
before. Thats the problem with the
pro-abortion side; They only go by their
own loose moral opinions.
Sooooo here is a little fact for you (so i
will assume you will not use the word
parasite again):
The fetus is not a parasite.
A parasite, by biological definition,
must be a different species. No thinking
person would consider apples as parasites
of an apple tree. (However a worm in the
apple is indeed a parasite). The
biological defintion of parasite can be
found at http://www.thefreedi
ctionary.com/parasit... . Some
committed abortion supporters cling to the
etymological definition of "one who is
sustained by another without benefit to
the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month
old baby is as much of a parasite as a
fetus. Only the most despicable monsters
in world history killed the very young.
So look up the definition of parasite. And
stop using it and perhaps read a
book. |
I do understand the fact that a parasite
in most cases must be of another species,
but I ask you to look at the parasitic
male of the anglerfish. He latches onto
the female and then the only thing he does
is produce sperm. His bloodstream and hers
merge. He is considered, scientifically,
to be a parasite even though he does
actually benefit the female host.
A fetus doesn't even benefit the host in
any way... yet for some reason isn't
considered a parasite by pro-life. It's
odd.
A born baby is not attached to one being,
surely you can understand that concept.
Yet it's a concept every uninformed
pro-lifer tries to fight back with. But it
doesn't work. A fetus is solely dependent
on the mother's body, and only her body.
No one else can care for that fetus. Once
it is born, any human being capable of
changing a diaper and feeding it a bottle
and (ideally) giving love and knowledge
can care for the baby. The mother can go
do whatever the hell she wants.
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milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 204
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Posted: 06-29-07 13:34pm
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A fetus is not a parasite. Find a doctor
who says such or a scientist for that
matter.
How does it benefit the mom?
By carrying on her genes. They call it
reproduction.
Is an apple a parasite?
It gets its nutrients off the tree. It
doesnt benefit the tree. If anything it
can hurt it (the apples on my tree get so
big late summer that at times it breaks a
limb).
Fact: Scientifically and medically, the
fetus is NOT a parasite. I deal with
facts. Use a different term for your
argument. It makes you look silly and
makes it hard to take you serious.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-29-07 13:39pm
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| stacybaby
wrote: | abortions are too easy these
days... just go to your doctor and say im
pregnant and i dont want to be no
questions and they make you the appt
and this i know for a fact!
people having abortions past 4months is
absolutely terrible.... an abortion can
seem like a good thing to do at the time
but after can cause alot of emotional
problems after the realisation of whats
been done |
DOn't lump all women into one category.
Aside from that, abortions past 4 months
hardly happen anyway. There's a great
topic on the pro-choice forum about the
timings of abortions. I advise everyone to
read that first before debating.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-29-07 14:15pm
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| milletics
wrote: | A fetus is not a parasite.
Find a doctor who says such or a scientist
for that matter.
How does it benefit the mom?
By carrying on her genes. They call it
reproduction.
Is an apple a parasite?
It gets its nutrients off the tree. It
doesnt benefit the tree. If anything it
can hurt it (the apples on my tree get so
big late summer that at times it breaks a
limb).
Fact: Scientifically and medically, the
fetus is NOT a parasite. I deal with
facts. Use a different term for your
argument. It makes you look silly and
makes it hard to take you
serious. |
For the record, the debate of the
parisitic nature of the fetus is not my
main argument for abortion anyway, so I
don't really care.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4159
Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 06-29-07 14:39pm
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| stacybaby
wrote: | abortions are too easy these
days... just go to your doctor and say im
pregnant and i dont want to be no
questions and they make you the appt
|
Why should they be more difficult?
milletics, I like your spunk. Hope you
stick around.
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stacybaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 196
Location: scotland
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Posted: 06-30-07 03:04am
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doctors should find out why the person
wants an abortion,they should allow the
person to have a proper think about it
rather than those people that have rushed
to the doctors and not really thought
about it
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-30-07 11:59am
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| stacybaby
wrote: | | doctors should find out why
the person wants an abortion,they should
allow the person to have a proper think
about it rather than those people that
have rushed to the doctors and not really
thought about
it |
Well aren't you in luck? Women have to
go through a screening process. They are
asked multiple times if they want
to go through with the abortion. They are
given pamphlets, and some are forced to
watch videos of an abortion. They go
through mandatory counseling.
So guess what? Aside from prying into the
woman's personal life, doctors do give
her plenty of time to think about the
procedure. It's not an in-and-out process.
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 06-30-07 12:21pm
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Some women do not want to be parents, in
this day and age. In this day and age, we
accept that some people aren't meant to be
parents and if they admit this, then they
probably wouldn't be good parents either
and they shouldn't have a child. In this
day and age, we know more about things
like ectopic pregnancy and know that we
can allow women to have the option to save
their lives.
It doesn't matter what a woman's reasons
are, what matters is that she is in a
situation and she's taking a look at her
life and making a decision based on what
she sees. No one can make a better
decision for her life than her because no
one will have to deal with her individual
consequences.
Personally, I don't agree with the
fetus-parasite comparison. A fetus may
live in a parasitic fashion, but that
doesn't mean it actually is a parasite.
Parasitism is a type of symbiosis and
symbiosis occurs between two organisms of
a different species. That isn't so with
pregnancy.
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stacybaby
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 196
Location: scotland
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Posted: 06-30-07 12:25pm
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eiri that may be the process where you are
from or america etc but CERTAINLY NOT IN
SCOTLAND
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-30-07 15:03pm
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| stacybaby
wrote: | | eiri that may be the process
where you are from or america etc but
CERTAINLY NOT IN
SCOTLAND |
No need to yell darling.
Okay fine, that's now how it is in
scotland. Many people who are debaters on
this forum are from england and america
though, and in those nations - especially
conservative america - counseling is a
forced requirement. It's not "oh here,
counseling is available if you need it",
no, it's "here, we are forcing you through
counseling."
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msrosie
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 369
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 12
Thanked:2
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Re: Why??
Posted: 06-30-07 16:11pm
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| chick1978
wrote: | Why, in this day and age,
are we so readily able to accept the
ending of a life in the womb??
|
I don't see anything wrong with ending the
life of a z/e/f in the womb. We end life
all the time - we slaughter animals for
our own consumption and fashion, some
countries kill those who commit certain
crimes, we allow people to kill in self
defense etc. Ending life is not always a
bad or wrong thing to do.
It is far better to abort a pregnancy in
the first trimester than to have a child
one is not willing/able to care for or to
foist it off on others to raise, in my
opinion.
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jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 808
Location: Texas
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Posted: 06-30-07 20:30pm
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| stacybaby
wrote: | | doctors should find out why
the person wants an abortion,they should
allow the person to have a proper think
about it rather than those people that
have rushed to the doctors and not really
thought about
it |
I am all in favor of giving important
decisions time to think but legislating
it, when it only affects .women, is
another issue entirely. It is
disrespectful and patronizing, to say the
very least, and it does pave the way for
people to believe that .women are in some
way so inferior that the government has to
make them talk about their decision or
wait until they can implement their
decision. Basically it is an old belief,
painted in a new, fresh coat, that we
.women don't really know right from wrong
and that we have to be told, typically by
a man. Further, .women also are
irrational and make decisions without
thinking them through.
I find these assumptions degrading and
disgusting.
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milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 204
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Re: Why??
Posted: 06-30-07 20:34pm
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| msrosie
wrote: | | chick1978
wrote: | Why, in this day and age,
are we so readily able to accept the
ending of a life in the womb??
|
I don't see anything wrong with ending the
life of a z/e/f in the womb. We end life
all the time - we slaughter animals for
our own consumption and fashion, some
countries kill those who commit certain
crimes, we allow people to kill in self
defense etc. Ending life is not always a
bad or wrong thing to do.
It is far better to abort a pregnancy in
the first trimester than to have a child
one is not willing/able to care for or to
foist it off on others to raise, in my
opinion. |
Nice mentality.
1. you compare humans with animals.
and 2. You compare people who commited
horrible crimes that are worthy of death
to an innocent human in the womb.
Man is that twisted.
If a woman as I have seen said on here
doesnt want to become a parent then she
should A) not have sex or B)get fixed or
C) use multiple types of contraceptives.
And in the impossibe senario that she gets
pregnant, she should step up to the
responsibility or put it up for adoption.
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jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 808
Location: Texas
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Re: Why??
Posted: 06-30-07 20:48pm
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| milletics
wrote: | | msrosie
wrote: | | chick1978
wrote: | Why, in this day and age,
are we so readily able to accept the
ending of a life in the womb??
|
I don't see anything wrong with ending the
life of a z/e/f in the womb. We end life
all the time - we slaughter animals for
our own consumption and fashion, some
countries kill those who commit certain
crimes, we allow people to kill in self
defense etc. Ending life is not always a
bad or wrong thing to do.
It is far better to abort a pregnancy in
the first trimester than to have a child
one is not willing/able to care for or to
foist it off on others to raise, in my
opinion. |
Nice mentality.
1. you compare humans with
animals. |
| Quote: | | and 2. You
compare people who commited horrible
crimes that are worthy of death to an
innocent human in the
womb. |
| Quote: | | If a woman as I
have seen said on here doesnt want to
become a parent then she should A) not
have sex |
Speaking of animals...
| Quote: | | or C) use
multiple types of
contraceptives. |
| Quote: | | And in the
impossibe senario that she gets pregnant,
she should step up to the responsibility
or put it up for
adoption. |
Abortion can be a responsible decision
regardless of if you believe that or not.
I see no reason why your opinion should
override the thoughts, feelings, or
beliefs of the .woman who is actually
pregnant.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 06-30-07 20:51pm
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1. Humans
are animals. I really hate it when
people forget that fact. We're sentient,
that's the only difference.
2. Both types of humans are worthless. At
least a fetus is technically "innocent",
but neither a murderer or a fetus is worth
more than the mother carrying it.
Abortion is stepping up to the
responsibility and it is doing
something about it.
Not stepping up and not taking
responsibility is what teens who give
birth and put the babies in dumpsters do.
Actually, even then at least they're
disposing of the body.
Truly not taking responsibility would be
to not change any of your behaviors during
pregnancy and pretend you're not pregnant,
and then push out the baby and not even
say anything to it, maybe in the middle of
the street or wherever you happen to be
when you go into labor. Then stand back up
and wander off, and push out the placenta
whenever that happens too. Maybe someone
will take you to the .e.r if you're
bleeding...
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 06-30-07 23:40pm
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| milletics
wrote: | nice mentality.
1. You compare humans with animals.
And 2. You compare people who commited
horrible crimes that are worthy of death
to an innocent human in the
womb. |
She isn't comparing humans to animals,
she's comparing killing to killing. The
ending of a living being doesn't change
according to how you feel about that
particular being. Killing is killing.
| milletics
wrote: | If a woman as I have seen
said on here doesnt want to become a
parent then she should a) not have sex or
b)get fixed or c) use multiple types of
contraceptives.
And in the impossibe senario that she gets
pregnant, she should step up to the
responsibility or put it up for
adoption. |
1. Sex is a healthy part of life, not a
tool. I will always have sex with my
husband and not wanting a child will not
change that. That is a ridiculous idea
and wholly unrealistic.
2. If you're going to educate people on
biology, I'd assume you'd at least know
that doctors will not sterilize a woman
before she has a number of children or is
at a certain age. It goes against the
ethics of any good obsetrician.
3. You speak of the option to give a baby
up for adoption as if it's nothing. You
can't just expect that of any woman, just
like you can't expect any woman to just be
able to have a child or terminate a
pregnancy. It isn't that easy.
Personally, I would have a much harder
time parting with a child than I would an
embryo.
Taking responsibility for a situation
means assessing it and making a decision
based on what you see. Abortion falls
into that category. Not taking
responsibility is hiding the pregnancy and
then getting rid of the baby once it's
born, like so many "pro-life" women have
been known to do, actually.
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
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Posted: 07-02-07 06:53am
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| Eiri
wrote: | 1. Humans are
animals. I really hate it when
people forget that fact. We're , that's
the only difference.
2. Both types of humans are worthless. At
least a fetus is technically "innocent",
but neither a not a nice person or a fetus
is worth more than the mother carrying
it.
Abortion is stepping up to the
responsibility and it is doing
something about it.
Not stepping up and not taking
responsibility is what teens who give
birth and put the babies in dumpsters do.
Actually, even then at least they're
disposing of the body.
Truly not taking responsibility would be
to not change any of your behaviors during
pregnancy and pretend you're not pregnant,
and then push out the baby and not even
say anything to it, maybe in the middle of
the street or wherever you happen to be
when you go into labor. Then stand back up
and wander off, and push out the placenta
whenever that happens too. Maybe someone
will take you to the .e.r if you're
bleeding... |
I think I would rather be tossed into a
dumpster and have a chance, even if it is
slight one then to have my body parts
ripped off me and no chance of life.
sentient= Having sense perception;
conscious. I think that make us very much
non-animals! Set a part, different!
"non-monkey!"
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