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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Thanked:0
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Posted: 04-20-07 17:48pm
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| Birch
wrote: | | Eiri
wrote: | | pro-life believes that only
murderers have abortion. You
know why I mention teens? I'm trying to
gain pro-life sympathy. I need pro-life to
see the face of the woman they are
condemning. |
Really? I thought you mentioned teens
because they [paraphrase] "are what the
stereotype classifies them as".
Quit caring about what I think.  |
I always have multiple reasons for what I
do. And if I don't care what my allies
think, then I am lost for sure.
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Thanked:13
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Posted: 04-20-07 23:47pm
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Few teen make all the right choices. All
the gods know I did not as a teen make all
the right choices. I have two daughters,
one concieved when I was 19.. I was too
dammed young then to have been breeding
but I thought it would be ok.
I haven't seen her father in 15 years, nor
had a dime of the now 54,000$ in back
support owed to me paid. Yes teen make
bad choice but you know what? Its all part
of learning and growing.
There is no reason to force a teen to
start off adulthood early or in a
disadvantaged position because she got
pregnant.
That is abuse.
That little girl is a teen now, I know for
a fact she has almost no chance of
becoming pregnant but that doesn't mean
she won't make mistakes, when she does we
talk about them, see what we can do to
correct them and what she learned from
them.. same as my mother did for me.
Teens are not perfect.... Thank the Gods.
All of Them.
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chick1978
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 68 Location: canada
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Posted: 04-21-07 00:00am
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But aren't you glad you have your
wonderful daughter?
You seemed to have coped well with
motherhood.
| Jincks013
wrote: | Few teen make all the right
choices. All the gods know I did not as a
teen make all the right choices. I have
two daughters, one concieved when I was
19.. I was too dammed young then to have
been breeding but I thought it would be
ok.
I haven't seen her father in 15 years, nor
had a dime of the now 54,000$ in back
support owed to me paid. Yes teen make
bad choice but you know what? Its all part
of learning and growing.
There is no reason to force a teen to
start off adulthood early or in a
disadvantaged position because she got
pregnant.
That is abuse.
That little girl is a teen now, I know for
a fact she has almost no chance of
becoming pregnant but that doesn't mean
she won't make mistakes, when she does we
talk about them, see what we can do to
correct them and what she learned from
them.. same as my mother did for me.
Teens are not perfect.... Thank the Gods.
All of Them. |
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nightangel73
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 2769 Location: ,
Thanks: 19
Thanked:18
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Posted: 04-21-07 08:39am
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| Jincks013
wrote: |
There is no reason to force a teen to
start off adulthood early or in a
disadvantaged position because she got
pregnant.
That is abuse.
The girl is not forced to adulthood
because nobody forced her to have
sex. |
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 04-21-07 13:39pm
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She wasn't forced to have sex - maybe -
but our hypothetical teen was
forced to give birth, and that's just as
wrong as rape.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 04-22-07 13:29pm
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| nightangel73
wrote: |
The girl is not forced to adulthood
because nobody forced her to have
sex. |
Does having sex equate to being an adult?
Geez, I know alot of fifteen year olds who
should be out voting. 
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 04-22-07 15:24pm
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| Birch
wrote: | | nightangel73
wrote: |
The girl is not forced to adulthood
because nobody forced her to have
sex. |
Does having sex equate to being an adult?
Geez, I know alot of fifteen year olds who
should be out voting.  |
I definately know that having sex doesn't
make someone an adult.
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
Thanks: 23
Thanked:13
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Posted: 04-23-07 08:46am
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Yes Chick, I do thank both my gods for my
daughter. That does not mean I will impose
my concept of morality on anyone else
though.
Personally I do not care if a woman aborts
save for it being her choice to do. Only
when it is a coerced abortion do I have
issues with it.
Its not my job to moderate some other
womans body. I know what choices were
right for me.
I have one daughter.
I lost a son - still birth.
I aborted the pregnancy afterward.
I tried again and lost it to spontanous
abortion aka 2nd trimester miscarriage.
I tried again with the same result.
I finally had the second child I wanted.
Another girl I call my Sunchild for her
honey gold hair.
My eldest being my Moonchild for her
ravens black locks.
I have never been a terrified as when I
had my youngest, who is my pill baby,
because the doctor flat told me I have I
had a high chance of not surviving the
pregnancy. Now mind you this was 1995 and
we simply did not have the technology then
to have a mid term premie live.
The drug that forces lungs to develope
early came out a year after my son died.
Still for all that it is not my job to
tell you what to do with your body. I wish
more people realized that.
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Becky
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 6230 Location: London, England
Thanks: 0
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Posted: 04-23-07 09:45am
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i have a daughter who i product of the
pill and a son product of the withdrawal
method. i concieved my 3rd child in the
week i took out my iud as it was giving me
problems.
i sometimes think what life would of been
like without kids. i see that it would be
a lonely life but with lots of freedom.
this freedom definately appeals to me but
obviously there is not much i can do now
as i have my children.
i agree 100% that people who don't want
kids should be intitled to a tubal. my
husband was supposed to have a vasectomy
after our second child was born but they
denied him and i had three pregnancies in
under 3 years. unfortunately my last child
was born premature and passed away but it
is still outrageous that they won't give
him a vasectomy as he is only 23. i have
the mirena coil now and feel pretty safe
but now we have split he is terrified of
getting his new partner pregnant and i
think that's awful for him.
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
Thanks: 23
Thanked:13
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Posted: 04-23-07 10:54am
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| Eiri
wrote: | | She wasn't forced to have
sex - maybe - but our hypothetical teen
was forced to give birth,
and that's just as wrong as
rape. |
Exactly. Thank you Eiri. IMO it is equally
a crime to force parenthood on a teenager,
particularly in view of the known medical
facts that pregnancy is more dangerous for
a teenager then an adult.
Why force that on the girl? Why force her
to be a parent while she is still a child?
Using the 'consent to sex, consent to
pregnancy' model does not fly here.
If that were workable we'd be right back
to the tired old 'close her legs'
arguement and last I heard teens were
majorly curious creatures who did not take
the time, especially when hormones are
raging and they have sexual longings they
aren't equipped to fully understand, at
taking a step back.
They do it. They have sex. Sometimes a
pregnancy results and when it does she has
options then. One of those is abortion,
she can keep the resultant pregnancy or
relinquish.
My goal is to ensure she always has
choices.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 04-23-07 13:05pm
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| Jincks013
wrote: |
Exactly. Thank you Eiri. IMO it is equally
a crime to force parenthood on a teenager,
particularly in view of the known medical
facts that pregnancy is more dangerous for
a teenager then an adult.
|
Not to throw off on a tangent, but how
accurate is this? I keep seeing stats
that women over 35 have a much higher
mortality rate associated with pregnancy.
Anyone help me out? Thanks
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 04-23-07 13:24pm
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| Birch
wrote: | | Jincks013
wrote: |
Exactly. Thank you Eiri. IMO it is equally
a crime to force parenthood on a teenager,
particularly in view of the known medical
facts that pregnancy is more dangerous for
a teenager then an adult.
|
Not to throw off on a tangent, but how
accurate is this? I keep seeing stats
that women over 35 have a much higher
mortality rate associated with pregnancy.
Anyone help me out?
Thanks |
As with many things, the very young and
the very old are both at risk.
Young teens are clearly at risk because
their bodies are simply not developed
enough; their hips are too thin to give
birth. In third world countries, many
young women die in child birth - and
the baby dies too - because the baby gets
stuck.
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
Thanks: 23
Thanked:13
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Posted: 04-23-07 18:01pm
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| Birch
wrote: | | Jincks013
wrote: |
Exactly. Thank you Eiri. IMO it is equally
a crime to force parenthood on a teenager,
particularly in view of the known medical
facts that pregnancy is more dangerous for
a teenager then an adult.
|
Not to throw off on a tangent, but how
accurate is this? I keep seeing stats
that women over 35 have a much higher
mortality rate associated with pregnancy.
Anyone help me out?
Thanks |
Back click through the links and visit the
Teen Pregnancy Forum on this very board.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 04-23-07 21:01pm
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How about websites?
I would think that logically the body
starts menstruating because it is ready to
carry a child. If the mortality rate is
high, could it be that the teen is
physically capable of having a child, but
does not attain adequate prenatal care
(such as nutrition, dr's visits, etc.) and
they don't do the 'right' things, such as
quit smoking, drinking, etc.?
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 04-23-07 21:13pm
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| Birch
wrote: | How about websites?
I would think that logically the body
starts menstruating because it is ready to
carry a child. If the mortality rate is
high, could it be that the teen is
physically capable of having a child, but
does not attain adequate prenatal care
(such as nutrition, dr's visits, etc.) and
they don't do the 'right' things, such as
quit smoking, drinking,
etc.? |
Logic and the human body do not coincide.
Go tell the dead african girls that they
"should have been physically ready" to
give birth. I don't mean to sound harsh,
but surely you can see that a girl who is
12 and has just started menstruating is
not physically ready to give birth? I
certainly wasn't ready to give birth when
I started menstruating.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 04-23-07 23:35pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | | Birch
wrote: | How about websites?
I would think that logically the body
starts menstruating because it is ready to
carry a child. If the mortality rate is
high, could it be that the teen is
physically capable of having a child, but
does not attain adequate prenatal care
(such as nutrition, dr's visits, etc.) and
they don't do the 'right' things, such as
quit smoking, drinking,
etc.? |
Logic and the human body do not coincide.
Go tell the dead african girls that they
"should have been physically ready" to
give birth. I don't mean to sound harsh,
but surely you can see that a girl who is
12 and has just started menstruating is
not physically ready to give birth? I
certainly wasn't ready to give birth when
I started
menstruating. |
I'm looking for statistics I can
comprehensively look at and see if there
are outlying reasons why teens are subject
to maternal death more than older adults.
I am having a hard time finding facts
about this. Anecdotes and stereotypes are
not what I'm looking for; I already have
plenty of those under my belt.
(And none of this is a personal attack
towards you in any shape or way. It's
just that I can's write a paper or
converse intelligently without some kind
of statistical information to back it up.
Know what I mean?)
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Posted: 04-24-07 00:30am
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I'm not going to clutter up the page with
large amounts of copy paste but if typing
"teenage pregnancy" into your browser does
not get you any of the 4,400,000
responses, literally,(( Search Results1 -
10 of about 4,400,000 for teen age
pregnancy - 0.27 sec. )) that I got when I
typed it into mine this could be a good
place to start.
Teen
Pregnancy
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 04-24-07 00:31am
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I'll go find information.
For the record, I never said that young
teens were more likely to die than older
women. I in fact tried to say that the
risks are similar, not one larger than
another. A fully physically mature adult
woman between the ages of 18-30 is most
likely to have a healthy child with little
complications. Women older and women
younger at at a higher risk of
complications; that's all I said.
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
Thanks: 23
Thanked:13
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Posted: 04-24-07 09:08am
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| Birch
wrote: | How about websites?
I would think that logically the body
starts menstruating because it is ready to
carry a
child.? |
I started menstruating at 11 myself. I I
was 4'ft 6 inches tall, weighed about 60
pounds, and had little a cup breasts. That
is not a body ready to bear children.
Bone density
is a major issue. Teen pregnancy and bone
loss later in life have been linked a
great deal. To quote the article "If bone
structure is not fully developed, she
takes the risk of injuring her spine and
pelvic bones".
Just becasue she is ovulating does not
mean her body is really ready for
pregnancy.
Health Risks to a Teenage mother
A teenage mother has special problems,
emotionally and physically
* The death rate from pregnancy
complications is a lot higher for girls
who are pregnant under the age of 15 than
among older teenagers
* Pregnant teenagers are more likely
to be undernourished and suffer premature
or prolonged labor
* During the first 3 months of
pregnancy; seven out of ten teenage girls
do not get prenatal care, see a doctor, or
go to a clinic
* Teenage mothers are at risk of
getting anemia, high blood pressure,
placental problems, and pregnancy induced
hypertension
* Teenage girls with STI's or HIV can
pass complications on to her baby when it
is born
* Teenage girls may also develop many
emotional problems such as depression,
shame, guilt, and stress
* Teenage mothers have the risk of
problems such as poor weight gain,
premature labor, and other complications.
*The younger the mother, the greater the
chance to have complications for both the
baby and the mother.
Source
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
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Posted: 04-24-07 14:44pm
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| Jincks013
wrote: | | Birch
wrote: | How about websites?
I would think that logically the body
starts menstruating because it is ready to
carry a
child.? |
I started menstruating at 11 myself. I I
was 4'ft 6 inches tall, weighed about 60
pounds, and had little a cup breasts. That
is not a body ready to bear children.
Bone density
is a major issue. Teen pregnancy and bone
loss later in life have been linked a
great deal. To quote the article "If bone
structure is not fully developed, she
takes the risk of injuring her spine and
pelvic bones".
Just becasue she is ovulating does not
mean her body is really ready for
pregnancy.
Health Risks to a Teenage mother
A teenage mother has special problems,
emotionally and physically
* The death rate from pregnancy
complications is a lot higher for girls
who are pregnant under the age of 15 than
among older teenagers
* Pregnant teenagers are more likely
to be undernourished and suffer premature
or prolonged labor
* During the first 3 months of
pregnancy; seven out of ten teenage girls
do not get prenatal care, see a doctor, or
go to a clinic
* Teenage mothers are at risk of
getting anemia, high blood pressure,
placental problems, and pregnancy induced
hypertension
* Teenage girls with STI's or HIV can
pass complications on to her baby when it
is born
* Teenage girls may also develop many
emotional problems such as depression,
shame, guilt, and stress
* Teenage mothers have the risk of
problems such as poor weight gain,
premature labor, and other complications.
*The younger the mother, the greater the
chance to have complications for both the
baby and the mother.
Source |
Thank you for the link. I was
hoping for more of a "study" kind of
thing. I don't like it when I hear "it
may" or "risks" without hearing more
substantial information. However, the
bone density issue makes sense. I also
wonder if evolutionary-wise the female
body is not "supposed" to be attractive to
a male until she has achieved a certain
level of development; including full hips
and breasts that indicate a readiness for
reproduction.
While it does seem clear that there are
psychosocial issues that arise when teens
have babies, are there other clear
biological risks? I guess what I'm asking
is that are we encultured to
believe that teens are not psychosocially
prepared to bear children, yet physical
bodies are?
For example, taking from the above, "*
During the first 3 months of pregnancy;
seven out of ten teenage girls do not get
prenatal care, see a doctor, or go to a
clinic." While this adds to the risk of
teenage pregnancy, if the teen had
received prenatal care the risks that
follow not having prenatal care would be
diminished drastically. That is a social
issue, not a biological one. Does that
make sense?
Of course there are exceptions to the
rule, like yourself and your smaller
frame.
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