Getting an abortion is
taking responsibility; it is making a
choice to deal with the pregnancy; it's
just not a method you approve of.
You say abortion is irresponsible... Well,
for a pregnant woman to TRULY be
irresponsible, she would have to
completely ignore the fact that she was
pregnant, and just do whatever the heck
she normally does. Drink, smoke, go on
roller coasters, fly in planes, sky-dive,
whatever. Then, if she managed to make it
to term, just crouch down on the street
and pop out a baby, then stand back up and
keep on walking, leaving it there. THAT is
not taking responsibility.
Prom-dumpster babies are an example of
this. Wouldn't you have to agree that
leaving a full-grown baby to die in a
filthy dumpster, fully aware of the world,
is FAR worse than aborting a human
embryo/fetus that cannot feel pain, is not
self-aware, cannot see well and can barely
hear? I think so. Plus an abortion is far
faster than death via the elements.
I must agree with what the other person
said:
Pro-choice and pro-life would both love to
see the need for abortions go down. But,
even in the theoretical world where
everyone was infertile until they got a
license, there would STILL be abortion.
Know why? Because pregnancy and
development can still go wrong. A mother
can still be in danger, a fetus can still
become deathly deformed. So no matter
what, there will always be abortions.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Re: It Is Not a Citizen Posted: 08-07-07 12:19pm
kethib54
wrote:
Many who promote abortion
are very opposed to capital punishment. I
will make you a deal. You oppose killing
innocent human beings and I will oppose
killing guilty dreadful felons.
Deal?
K'ay. I'm pro-choice, and I'm pro-death
penalty. I want those sons of B's to DIE
for slaughtering other people, for raping
and paedophelia and whatever else it is
they're on death-row for. I don't want to
pay for them to have food, health care,
and cable TV.
So, I'll be for the punishing of a-holes
who deserve death, and I'll also be for
the freedom of a woman to not be
punished for an accident. By the way,
accidental manslaughter is NEVER cause for
death penalty in my book.
YOU can set these horrid criminals free
(or whatever it is you plan to do to them
since I'm not paying any taxes on them)
and you can also be a sexist a-hole and
remove a female's right to control her
body, just because she's the only gender
capable of becoming pregnant.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 08-07-07 14:56pm
milletics
wrote:
Its called responsibility.
If people had it, abortions would almost
never occur.
There was a time when I didnt want kids(at
least not then), but I chose to have
sex(using bc) and I knew that there was a
risk of my wife becoming pregnant and I
was also responsible(key word) enough to
accept the cosequences should she become
pregnant. Thank God she did to.
We have the most wonderful daughter. Sick
to think my wife could have killed her.
Those are great scientific FACTS.
Facts dont matter too much for the
choicers.
How ironic that here you
espouse "scientific FACTS". How can you
live with such inconsistentcy? Of
course, since you've only posted opinions,
I guess you can get away with it.
kethib54
wrote:
...I will make you a deal. You oppose
killing innocent human beings and I will
oppose killing guilty dreadful felons.
Deal?
I have an alternative plan; you keep your
views on abortion out of my uterus, and
I'll keep my views on abortion out of your
uterus. Deal?
The arguments against the death penalty
have very little in common with the
abortion debate. Apples to oranges.
|
kethib54
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 10 Location: AZ
What Is Taking Responsibility? Posted: 08-07-07 16:51pm
posted:Drink, smoke, go on roller
coasters, fly in planes, sky-dive,
whatever.
These were listed as a pregnant woman not
taking responsibility. Ummm, yet killing
the unborn baby is responsible? Whoa!
That is twisted logic. The only problem
with drinking, smoking et al is that it
might under some circumstances harm the
unborn baby. Abortion still leaves a dead
baby. The other 'irresponsible' thngs
merely leave a damaged baby.
and posted:Wouldn't you have to agree that
leaving a full-grown baby to die in a
filthy dumpster, fully aware of the world,
is FAR worse than aborting a human
embryo...
So this argument is that if someone is
small, deaf or blind we can kill them more
legitimately than if we are dealing with
healthy big person. Question. How small
or blind does a person have to be before
one can kill him/her? I still prefer a
kinder gentler world where killing is
rarely an option considered. I think even
Jesus said He had a preference for
watching out for "the least of these."
The above argument is close to the top
argument for the eugenics crowd (eugenics?
that is what Adolf was into).
And finally shall I describe how an unborn
baby dies when aborted? A majority of
abortions are 'saline abortions'. The
saline solution burns the hell out of the
unborn baby's skin leading to the
abortion. This is not a nice way to go...
and a lot of evidence shows that the
unborn do feel pain. In general let's keep
killing to a minimum (and I am totally
unconcerned about where the killing
occurs, whether in a doctor's office, or
in a uterus or under the vicious rule of a
tyrant). I think laws against killing
(especially the premeditated sort) need to
apply in bedrooms, boardrooms, the public
square or even the private uterus. The
baby IS NOT your body, the baby is his/her
own body.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Re: What Is Taking Responsibility? Posted: 08-07-07 17:14pm
kethib54
wrote:
posted:Drink, smoke, go on
roller coasters, fly in planes, sky-dive,
whatever.
These were listed as a pregnant woman not
taking responsibility. Ummm, yet killing
the unborn baby is responsible? Whoa!
That is twisted logic. The only problem
with drinking, smoking et al is that it
might under some circumstances harm the
unborn baby. Abortion still leaves a dead
baby. The other 'irresponsible' thngs
merely leave a damaged baby.
and posted:Wouldn't you have to agree that
leaving a full-grown baby to die in a
filthy dumpster, fully aware of the world,
is FAR worse than aborting a human
embryo...
So this argument is that if someone is
small, deaf or blind we can kill them more
legitimately than if we are dealing with
healthy big person. Question. How small
or blind does a person have to be before
one can kill him/her? I still prefer a
kinder gentler world where killing is
rarely an option considered. I think even
Jesus said He had a preference for
watching out for "the least of these."
The above argument is close to the top
argument for the eugenics crowd (eugenics?
that is what Adolf was into).
And finally shall I describe how an unborn
baby dies when aborted? A majority of
abortions are 'saline abortions'. The
saline solution burns the hell out of the
unborn baby's skin leading to the
abortion. This is not a nice way to go...
and a lot of evidence shows that the
unborn do feel pain. In general let's keep
killing to a minimum (and I am totally
unconcerned about where the killing
occurs, whether in a doctor's office, or
in a uterus or under the vicious rule of a
tyrant). I think laws against killing
(especially the premeditated sort) need to
apply in bedrooms, boardrooms, the public
square or even the private uterus. The
baby IS NOT your body, the baby is his/her
own body.
Uh oh. Inaccurate information alert!
Religion alert! Hitler reference alert!
Run for the hills! This one's loaded!
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 08-07-07 19:04pm
These are not medical arguments against
abortion. That title makes me sick.
Those in the medical field who take a
moral stand against abortion usually feel
different ethically.
1) The heart is not formed by the
eighteenth day in gestation. This is
something lifers say, but they leave out
the details of this milestone. A heart is
four chambers-the primitive heart of an
embryo is two simple epithelial tubes with
blood circulating through them.
2) Fetuses absolutely do not feel pain
before 26-28 weeks. The Journal of the
American Medical Association recently
released a statement to this fact.
3) At the moment of conception, a woman is
not even considered to be pregnant. If
she isn't pregnant, then it isn't a baby.
Right?
4) Sterilization of a woman simply to
avoid pregnancy is an idiotic practice and
not much more effective than taking the
pill. Do some research before you open
your mouths.
5) Taking responsibility for a situation
means assessing it and then making a
decision to rectify it as you see
fit. Not agreeing with abortion
doesn't disqualify it as a viable option.
Honestly, some people believe that
thinking something just makes it so!
|
kethib54
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 10 Location: AZ
Restatement And Rebuttal Posted: 08-07-07 19:31pm
Indeed, saline abortions have become much
less prevalent, but initially after Roe vs
Wade were very popular. Face it,
abortions are cruel and unusual punishment
for a completely innocent human being (in
late term abortions the babies head is
crushed to allow passage through vagina or
surgical opening). Abortion should be a
last resort, not a convenient alternative.
And Jesus 'said' nothing according to
critics who deny his existence, although
there is more evidence for Jesus' actions
than for any other personal event in
ancient history. Point is, most
reasonable people will accept that indeed
Jesus was somewhat accurately quoted in
the New Testament.
Wikipediia is your source for hitler?????
Hello! check out the origin of the
information on wikipedia, it is typically
one person's (or a small group's) opinion.
There are no requirements as to knowledge
or education for those who write on
wikipedia. Deal with the facts. Abortion
does end a completely human life. Jesus
is quoted as saying some very awesome
things. And Hitler was into eugenics based
on his darwinian beliefs. He literally
wanted to help evolution along. Oh, and
atheism is a religion, based on the
precise statements of noted atheists. So
religion alert back atcha.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Re: Restatement And Rebuttal Posted: 08-07-07 20:52pm
kethib54
wrote:
Indeed, saline abortions
have become much less prevalent, but
initially after Roe vs Wade were very
popular. Face it, abortions are cruel and
unusual punishment for a completely
innocent human being (in late term
abortions the babies head is crushed to
allow passage through vagina or surgical
opening). Abortion should be a last
resort, not a convenient alternative.
So you were wrong, saline solution
abortions are not "the majority".
Why detract from that with all this
blather about punishments?
You are just prattering "popspeak" when
you say things like "Abortion should be a
last resort, not a convenient alternative"
because you don't have a clue what that
means.
kethib54
wrote:
And Jesus 'said' nothing
according to critics who deny his
existence, although there is more evidence
for Jesus' actions than for any other
personal event in ancient history. Point
is, most reasonable people will accept
that indeed Jesus was somewhat accurately
quoted in the New Testament.
Who cares. There's no proof of his
existance, and it has nothing to do with
abortion anyways.
kethib54
wrote:
Wikipediia is your source
for hitler????? Hello! check out the
origin of the information on wikipedia, it
is typically one person's (or a small
group's) opinion. There are no
requirements as to knowledge or education
for those who write on wikipedia. Deal
with the facts. Abortion does end a
completely human life. Jesus is quoted as
saying some very awesome things. And
Hitler was into eugenics based on his
darwinian beliefs. He literally wanted to
help evolution along. Oh, and atheism is
a religion, based on the precise
statements of noted atheists. So religion
alert back
atcha.
'The New Testament is your source for
Jesus????? Hello! check out the origin of
the information in the New Testament, it
is typically one person's (or a small
group's) opinion. There are no
requirements as to knowledge or education
for those who wrote the New Testament.
Deal with the facts.'
Anyways, I was using Wikipedia as a source
on Godwin's Law, not Hitler,
which you would have known if you even
bothered to look. Is that how decided
your religious beliefs, too?
kethib54
wrote:
Abortion does end a
completely human life. Jesus is quoted as
saying some very awesome things. And
Hitler was into eugenics based on his
darwinian beliefs. He literally wanted to
help evolution along. Oh, and atheism is
a religion, based on the precise
statements of noted atheists. So religion
alert back
atcha.
I still don't know what Jesus and Hitler
have to do with the abortion debate.
Who said anything about atheism??
Is that just your assumption? If someone
doesn't believe in Jesus' existence they
must be an atheist? Typical.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
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Re: What Is Taking Responsibility? Posted: 08-07-07 22:01pm
kethib54
wrote:
posted:Drink, smoke, go on
roller coasters, fly in planes, sky-dive,
whatever.
These were listed as a pregnant woman not
taking responsibility. Ummm, yet killing
the unborn baby is responsible? Whoa!
That is twisted logic.
No, it's not.
Leaving a fatally injured dog to wander a
house is NOT taking responsibility, and
despite the fact that taking it to get
euthanized kills it, that's still TAKING
responsibility. Death can be responsible.
Quote:
The only problem
with drinking, smoking et al is that it
might under some circumstances harm the
unborn baby.
Ah, DUH. And if you purposely STAY
pregnant, and purposly HARM a fetus that
you don't plan on aborting, then you are
purposly HURTING it with full intentions
to give birth to a deformed, sickly child.
That is SICK, and it's not taking
responsibility.
Quote:
Abortion still
leaves a dead baby.
Abortion leaves a dead embryo or fetus.
Not a baby. In fact, it is OFTEN an
embryo, not even the "fetus" that
pro-lifers love to parade around. Have you
seen a picture of an embryo? It's not a
baby.
Quote:
The other
'irresponsible' thngs merely leave a
damaged baby.
And
that's RESPONSIBLE!?!?! Seriously,
never have children. Ever. If you have
them, give them away. It's called NEGLECT,
and it's called irresponsible parenting.
It is cause for Jail Time.
Quote:
and
posted:Wouldn't you have to agree that
leaving a full-grown baby to die in a
filthy dumpster, fully aware of the world,
is FAR worse than aborting a human
embryo...
So this argument is that if someone is
small, deaf or
blind
And lacking the "human" spark of self
awareness, and lacking many other human
attributes, like a fully developed heart
(it's 3 chambered for a long time) or
intestines or brain -
Quote:
we can kill them
more legitimately than if we are dealing
with healthy big person.
Yes. I know where you're going with this
and it makes me chuckle.
Quote:
Question. How
small or blind does a person have to be
before one can kill
him/her?
It has to be inside a woman's UTERUS.
Quote:
I still prefer a
kinder gentler world where killing is
rarely an option considered.
So do I. I'm not bloodthirsty like you
seem to think.
Quote:
I think even
Jesus said He had a preference for
watching out for "the least of these."
I'm not Christian so I don't care.
Quote:
The above
argument is close to the top argument for
the eugenics crowd (eugenics? that is
what Adolf was into).
Except that eugenics deals with BORN
people not unborn human embryos. Also,
abortion does not discriminate. Abortion
doesn't care what gender you are (unless
you're the mother; then pro-life is
sickeningly sexist). Abortion doesn't care
what race you are, or what religion you
are.
Quote:
And finally shall
I describe how an unborn baby dies when
aborted?
Not really, since as an educated adult I
already know. You think I am pro-choice
and haven't see "The Silent Scream"? Oh,
I've watched it. ALL of it. Without
puking. Personally, liposuction grosses me
out more than abortion.
Quote:
A majority of
abortions are 'saline abortions'. The
saline solution burns the hell out of the
unborn baby's skin leading to the
abortion.
Strange, I haven't heard of this form of
abortion at all. To my knowledge (told to
me from repuatable sources such as women
who actually WORK in abortion clinics and
assist with REAL abortions) the most
common, early-term abortions are done via
suction. No "acid" involved.
Quote:
This is not a
nice way to go...
If you could feel pain, I am sure it would
suck a lot. But embryos can't feel pain.
Quote:
and a lot of
evidence shows that the unborn do feel
pain.
Yes, after week 26, it is quite possible
that FETUSES feel pain. Quite possible.
Unfortunately for you and your theories,
the brain of the fetus is not developed
enough before week 26 to even feel pain.
It is physically impossible for the fetus
younger than 26 weeks to feel pain. And
most abortions occur between 6-12 weeks...
and the unborn human is called an EMBRYO
until week 10.
Quote:
In general let's
keep killing to a minimum (and I am
totally unconcerned about where the
killing occurs, whether in a doctor's
office, or in a uterus or under the
vicious rule of a
tyrant).
I once again agree.
Quote:
I think laws
against killing (especially the
premeditated sort) need to apply in
bedrooms, boardrooms, the public square or
even the private uterus. The baby IS NOT
your body, the baby is his/her own
body.
You seem to forget that it is the woman's
body that is being hijacked to care for
that embryo you care so freaking much
about. Not yours. You could potentially
own that bedroom, or you could walk
through that public square. When you can
legally own a woman's uterus or walk
through it, you let me know.
An embryo cannot survive outside the
woman's body. Thus, the woman is in
control. I'm sorry you feel inadequet next
to a woman and the all-mighty-uterus.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 08-08-07 06:25am
Birch
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
Its called responsibility.
If people had it, abortions would almost
never occur.
There was a time when I didnt want kids(at
least not then), but I chose to have
sex(using bc) and I knew that there was a
risk of my wife becoming pregnant and I
was also responsible(key word) enough to
accept the cosequences should she become
pregnant. Thank God she did to.
We have the most wonderful daughter. Sick
to think my wife could have killed her.
Those are great scientific FACTS.
Facts dont matter too much for the
choicers.
How ironic that here you
espouse "scientific FACTS". How can you
live with such inconsistentcy? Of
course, since you've only posted opinions,
I guess you can get away with it.
kethib54
wrote:
...I will make you a deal. You oppose
killing innocent human beings and I will
oppose killing guilty dreadful felons.
Deal?
I have an alternative plan; you keep your
views on abortion out of my uterus, and
I'll keep my views on abortion out of your
uterus. Deal?
The arguments against the death penalty
have very little in common with the
abortion debate. Apples to
oranges.
Maam, I only use facts. Nothing but. I
will leave religon out of it. I only argue
it using scientific facts. Still waiting
for any facts you have.
Fact: scientifically, the fetus IS a human
being. Nuff said. Apparently that small
fact isnt that big.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 08-08-07 06:32am
Birch
wrote:
kethib54
wrote:
...I will make you a deal. You oppose
killing innocent human beings and I will
oppose killing guilty dreadful felons.
Deal?
I have an alternative plan; you keep your
views on abortion out of my uterus, and
I'll keep my views on abortion out of your
uterus. Deal?
The arguments against the death penalty
have very little in common with the
abortion debate. Apples to
oranges.
Good argument(sarcasm).
So by that silly "choicer" argument I
should be able to have child porn on my
computer. What? Hey its my choice; right.
Doesnt hurt anyone. Its my choice. You
say"it affects the life of a child
though". Exactly. As does abortion.
Again; You use NO facts. Only views and
opinions. Its just sad that your opinion
has to kill 1.3 million babies every year
in my country alone.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 08-08-07 09:13am
milletics
wrote:
Maam, I only use facts.
Nothing but. I will leave religon out of
it. I only argue it using scientific
facts. Still waiting for any facts you
have.
Fact: scientifically, the fetus IS a human
being. Nuff said. Apparently that small
fact isnt that
big.
Sir, you will be hard pressed to find a
statement by me that says "the fetus is
not a human being" because it is.
Did you see that?
The fetus is a human being. I am
prochoice. The fetus is a human being. I
am prochoice.
I did this brainwashing b/c prolife folks
lump prochoicers into convenient
categories, much as they accuse prochoice
folks of doing.
I think you'll find most intelligent
prochoice folks agree with me-the fetus is
a human being. What the hell else could
it be?
And "Ma'am" is spelled with an apostrophe.
If you are going to try to be
condescending, do get the spelling
correct.
Okay, now onward...
milletics
wrote:
Good argument(sarcasm).
So by that silly "choicer" argument I
should be able to have child porn on my
computer. What? Hey its my choice; right.
Doesnt hurt anyone. Its my choice. You
say"it affects the life of a child
though". Exactly. As does abortion.
Again; You use NO facts. Only views and
opinions. Its just sad that your opinion
has to kill 1.3 million babies every year
in my country
alone.
No, because you see, abortion and child
porn are apples to oranges. So, "by that
silly...argument" you don't have a case.
Child porn hurts children. Abortion
doesn't.
My opinion doesn't kill 1.3 million
anything in a year. That's quite the
fact.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 08-08-07 13:52pm
Alright I am done here.
Abortion doesnt hurt children?
If you think that, then there is no point
going on.
fin
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 08-08-07 14:17pm
milletics
wrote:
Alright I am done here.
Abortion doesnt hurt children?
If you think that, then there is no point
going on.
fin
Thank goodness; your self-righteous stink
was smelling up the boards here pretty
badly.
People like you hurt children. You would
want a 13 year old to become a mother,
regardless of how she feels about it.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
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Posted: 08-08-07 14:29pm
Or a nine year old, depending on when she
got her period and when she was raped by
her father. You know.
|
chick1978
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 68 Location: canada
Why Would You Write a Comment Like That????? Posted: 08-08-07 14:43pm
Eiri
wrote:
Or a nine year old,
depending on when she got her period and
when she was raped by her father. You
know.
Why would you write a comment like
that?????
"when she was raped by her
father"............................what
kind of point are you trying to get across
with this sick statement?
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4159 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Re: Why Would You Write a Comment Like That????? Posted: 08-08-07 15:48pm
chick1978
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Or a nine year old,
depending on when she got her period and
when she was raped by her father. You
know.
Why would you write a comment like
that?????
"when she was raped by her
father"............................what
kind of point are you trying to get across
with this sick
statement?
This is how milletic's views on abortion
hurts children.
Do try to keep up.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
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Posted: 08-08-07 16:10pm
it happens, fathers rape daughters you
know.
|
chick1978
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 68 Location: canada
Posted: 08-08-07 16:44pm
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
it happens, fathers rape
daughters you
know.
I am sure it does happen........
|
chick1978
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 68 Location: canada
Re: Why Would You Write a Comment Like That????? Posted: 08-08-07 16:48pm
Birch
wrote:
chick1978
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Or a nine year old,
depending on when she got her period and
when she was raped by her father. You
know.
Why would you write a comment like
that?????
"when she was raped by her
father"............................what
kind of point are you trying to get across
with this sick
statement?
This is how milletic's views on abortion
hurts children.
Do try to keep up.
Oh,........... sorry, I was thinking we
posted our own views on abortion on this
forum, guess I was incorrect.
