I'm not ignoring the reasons. I just think
that most of them could have been handle
through adoption. I think if you had ten
reasons why a woman feels a necessity to
abort, most of the reason could also have
used the method of
adoption.
I can probably think up ten situations
where adoption is not the best choice.
Yeah, adoption is often a choice, but it's
not the best one, it's not the healthiest
one physically or emotionally, it's not
financially feasable.
Being pregnant and being healthy about it
is way more expensive than an early-term
abortion. So no, adoption is not a good
option for college students or teens
caring for themselves, because they cannot
afford to be pregnant.
Physically, pregnancy is far more
strenuous on the female body than
abortion. So is birth.
Forcing a woman to keep a pregnancy is
wrong in so many ways. First, you're
violating her right to control her own
body. The embryo/fetus is connected to her
body and cannot survive without it, so it
is in her control, and she can decide to
do whatever she wants to it, because it is
feeding off of her body.
Just like if you woke up suddenly some day
hooked up to another human being, and it
was your body that was keeping them alive.
This person isn't famous or great, it's
joe from down the street. You have the
right to disconnect yourself. It would be
a violation of your rights to force you to
stay there especially when you didn't give
permission for your body to be used in
that way. What's more, they're going to
take a kidney and a lung without your
permission, if you don't get up and leave.
Also, you have to pay for the treatments,
even though you didn't even volunteer to
do it in the first place.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-17-07 16:43pm
Eiri
wrote:
You can get used to my "in your face"
attitude, because that's what I've always
been like on here.
Really....I seem to remember an Eiri who
used to be a whole lot less hateful and a
whole lot more respectful of others rights
to their opinions. Used to it I am....but
that won't keep me from calling you on
it.
Eiri
wrote:
I haven't lied
yet,
Does that mean we have that to look
forward to?lol
Eiri
wrote:
I haven't exaggerated any
facts, and I haven't said anything you
don't already know. I also didn't insult
you, so what's the issue
here?
The issue is...you respect no ones right
to an opinion but your own. As for all the
rest....I didn't accuse you of that. All I
said is that your attitude towards anyone
who doesn't agree with you is quite
hateful. You know it is possible to
disagree with someone and still be a civil
human being.
Eiri
wrote:
As far as reasons for
abortions go... it's only your opinion
that the only "acceptable" abortion is
that of a woman who's absolutely going to
die.
"Acceptable?" Did I say that the only
"acceptable" abortion is in the case of a
woman who is going to die? No...now you
are putting words into my mouth.
IMHO....there is no such thing as an
"acceptable" abortion...and yes....as a
matter of fact...that is **my** opinion.
Eiri
wrote:
What about the women who
might die, but it's not a sure fact?
Should they risk their lives for your
naieve
beliefs?
My opinion is...no she should not have an
abortion for any reason. Naieve? Why are
my beliefs naieve? Because they are
mine...or simply because you don't agree
with them?
Eiri
wrote:
What about the 12 year old
who was raped? She's not going to die,
but pregnancy is going to be very harsh on
her body. So I guess she can't abort,
since it's not possible to prove that she
will absolutely positively
die.
To be quite honest....if it is just based
on how harsh it is on her body...then no I
don't believe that she should have an
abortion. Women long before the 21st
century were having babies as soon as they
had their first periods. Womens bodies
were designed for child bearing....even at
a very young age. The body is not what I
would be worried about in a rape case
anyway. It would be her emotional state. I
would be torn between which would cause
her more emotional termoil....an
abortion...or a pregnancy. Believe it or
not....even some 12 year olds would rather
keep their babies.
Eiri
wrote:
What about fetuses so
deformed that a child won't even be born?
Should that woman have to go through the
pain of birth when she's already going
through the pain of loosing her
child?
If a fetus is so deformed/ill/diseased
that it cannot be born....then obviously
it will die naturally in utero and there
will be no pain of child birth....only the
pain of loss. There are children born with
disease/deformity/illness....but don't
they deserve a chance at life? And who
judges which
diseases/deformities/illnesses are
acceptable and which aren't? If you know
in utero that your child will be born with
a cleft pallet...is that acceptable reason
to abort? What about down syndrome? What
about a club foot? Where do we draw the
line?
Eiri
wrote:
Do you understand the
difference between even a 40 week old
fetus and a 10 week old embryo? This
difference is vital to almost every woman
who aborts. I don't like repeating myself;
if I wanted to hear the same thing over
and over again, I'd go to
church.
Eiri...do you understand the difference? I
have been pregnant with 5 kids? Have you?
Have you ever felt human life inside you?
Have you ever heard your babies heart beat
at 6 weeks, felt it kick, hiccup, or
watched it suck its thumb on a sonogram? I
have....so yes...I know the difference
between a 40 week fetus and a 10 week
embryo. I also know the thing they both
have in common. They are both living human
lives. That right there ***in my
opinion****trumps any reason or anyones
choice for killing them. As for repeating
yourself....then quit and come back when
you have something new to say. As for
hearing the same thing over and over
again....quit asking if you don't want to
hear it....because IMO...the facts aren't
going to change.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-17-07 17:07pm
Eiri
wrote:
I can probably think up ten situations
where adoption is not the best choice.
Yeah, adoption is often a choice, but it's
not the best one, it's not the healthiest
one physically or emotionally, it's not
financially
feasable.
Who is adoption not healthy for? Why would
it not be financially feasable? It is a
whole lot cheaper than an abortion....and
in fact....in many cases...the mothers
medical bills are paid, often her living
expenses...and she can often walk away
with money in her pocket. Tell me any
situation where killing a human life is a
better choice that giving that same human
life a chance at living and to a family
who really do want it?
Eiri
wrote:
Being pregnant and being
healthy about it is way more expensive
than an early-term abortion. So no,
adoption is not a good option for college
students or teens caring for themselves,
because they cannot afford to be
pregnant..
You do not do your homework before you
speak. I know of several college students
who carried their babies to term, gave
them up for adoption, hardly missed a beat
where there classes were concerned....and
came out ahead financially.
Eiri
wrote:
Physically, pregnancy is far
more strenuous on the female body than
abortion. So is
birth.
Doing something that our bodies are
designed for is more strenuous than having
an abortion? Really? That is interesting.
Having natural childbirth is more
strenuous than having invasive surgery. My
gyn will be interested in knowing that.
Again Eiri....do your homework....and do
it somewhere besides the planned
parenthood website.
Eiri
wrote:
Forcing a woman to keep a
pregnancy is wrong in so many ways. First,
you're violating her right to control her
own body. The embryo/fetus is connected to
her body and cannot survive without it, so
it is in her control, and she can decide
to do whatever she wants to it, because it
is feeding off of her
body.
Forcing a woman to get pregnant is
wrong....but just who forces women to keep
them? Last I knew...the law says she can
kill her fetus any time she wants to. But
it always goes back to....just because you
can kill your fetus....does it mean you
should?
Eiri
wrote:
Just like if you woke up
suddenly some day hooked up to another
human being, and it was your body that was
keeping them alive. This person isn't
famous or great, it's joe from down the
street. You have the right to disconnect
yourself. It would be a violation of your
rights to force you to stay there
especially when you didn't give permission
for your body to be used in that way.
What's more, they're going to take a
kidney and a lung without your permission,
if you don't get up and leave. Also, you
have to pay for the treatments, even
though you didn't even volunteer to do it
in the first
place.
Good analogy...and of course...I have an
answer. You forget that this human life
you are keeping alive was in fact created
by you....with a little help from Mr.
Right Now....and unless you were
raped....no one forced you to do whatever
you did to become connected to this human
life. That aside though.....if this were
me....and I knew that the only thing
required of me was a few months out of my
life...but for the most part nothing in my
life would really change(except of course
for my waist size) and then at the end of
this time....I could either take this
little life that I had protected with my
own body home....or give it to someone who
could give it everything I
couldn't.....hmmmm....what would I do?
What did this human life actually take
from me? Did this human life just appear
inside me...or were my own actions
responsible for it being there? Should
this human life die because *I* made a
mistake? All this life needs from me is a
secure place to grow for 9 months and then
he/she can go out into the world with or
without me? I would never be selfish
enough to deny another human
life...life...if it were in my power to
help them. Isn't that what we as humans
are suppose to do....help one another?
|
meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2132 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Posted: 06-17-07 17:52pm
trina1
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
I can probably think up ten situations
where adoption is not the best choice.
Yeah, adoption is often a choice, but it's
not the best one, it's not the healthiest
one physically or emotionally, it's not
financially
feasable.
Who is adoption not healthy for? Why would
it not be financially feasable? It is a
whole lot cheaper than an abortion....and
in fact....in many cases...the mothers
medical bills are paid, often her living
expenses...and she can often walk away
with money in her pocket. Tell me any
situation where killing a human life is a
better choice that giving that same human
life a chance at living and to a family
who really do want it?
Eiri
wrote:
Being pregnant and being
healthy about it is way more expensive
than an early-term abortion. So no,
adoption is not a good option for college
students or teens caring for themselves,
because they cannot afford to be
pregnant..
You do not do your homework before you
speak. I know of several college students
who carried their babies to term, gave
them up for adoption, hardly missed a beat
where there classes were concerned....and
came out ahead financially.
Eiri
wrote:
Physically, pregnancy is far
more strenuous on the female body than
abortion. So is
birth.
Doing something that our bodies are
designed for is more strenuous than having
an abortion? Really? That is interesting.
Having natural childbirth is more
strenuous than having invasive surgery. My
gyn will be interested in knowing that.
Again Eiri....do your homework....and do
it somewhere besides the planned
parenthood website.
Eiri
wrote:
Forcing a woman to keep a
pregnancy is wrong in so many ways. First,
you're violating her right to control her
own body. The embryo/fetus is connected to
her body and cannot survive without it, so
it is in her control, and she can decide
to do whatever she wants to it, because it
is feeding off of her
body.
Forcing a woman to get pregnant is
wrong....but just who forces women to keep
them? Last I knew...the law says she can
kill her fetus any time she wants to. But
it always goes back to....just because you
can kill your fetus....does it mean you
should?
Eiri
wrote:
Just like if you woke up
suddenly some day hooked up to another
human being, and it was your body that was
keeping them alive. This person isn't
famous or great, it's joe from down the
street. You have the right to disconnect
yourself. It would be a violation of your
rights to force you to stay there
especially when you didn't give permission
for your body to be used in that way.
What's more, they're going to take a
kidney and a lung without your permission,
if you don't get up and leave. Also, you
have to pay for the treatments, even
though you didn't even volunteer to do it
in the first
place.
Good analogy...and of course...I have an
answer. You forget that this human life
you are keeping alive was in fact created
by you....with a little help from Mr.
Right Now....and unless you were
raped....no one forced you to do whatever
you did to become connected to this human
life. That aside though.....if this were
me....and I knew that the only thing
required of me was a few months out of my
life...but for the most part nothing in my
life would really change(except of course
for my waist size) and then at the end of
this time....I could either take this
little life that I had protected with my
own body home....or give it to someone who
could give it everything I
couldn't.....hmmmm....what would I do?
What did this human life actually take
from me? Did this human life just appear
inside me...or were my own actions
responsible for it being there? Should
this human life die because *I* made a
mistake? All this life needs from me is a
secure place to grow for 9 months and then
he/she can go out into the world with or
without me? I would never be selfish
enough to deny another human
life...life...if it were in my power to
help them. Isn't that what we as humans
are suppose to do....help one
another?
Hugs Trina, Thank you for saying just what
I was thinking.. If you are in college or
not there is a way to survive.. Pregnant
or not.. There is always a way!
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-17-07 18:50pm
[quote="trina1"]
Eiri
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
What about the women who
might die, but it's not a sure fact?
Should they risk their lives for your
naieve
beliefs?
My opinion is...no she should not have an
abortion for any reason. Naieve? Why are
my beliefs naieve? Because they are
mine...or simply because you don't agree
with them?
Your opinions are naieve because they
innocently assume that the world is a far
simpler place than it actually is. They
are naieve because they view abortion as a
black and white issue, when it is anything
but black and white.
You will condemn a mother and the baby to
death. You will kill two lives instead of
rescuing one. You're the type of person
who, when faced with a decision too save
two people, would let both die because you
don't have the courage to place a value on
life. And so, more death occurs.
Quote:
Eiri
wrote:
What about the 12 year old
who was raped? She's not going to die,
but pregnancy is going to be very harsh on
her body. So I guess she can't abort,
since it's not possible to prove that she
will absolutely positively
die.
To be quite honest....if it is just based
on how harsh it is on her body...then no I
don't believe that she should have an
abortion. Women long before the 21st
century were having babies as soon as they
had their first
periods.
What you don't know (apparently) is that
centuries ago, women were not getting
their periods until they were 15. Female
bodies can handle birth at age 15 (barely
I might add). Nowadays, girls as young as
8 are getting their period, but their
bodies are no more developed than women
from the 1700's. So what he have now are
girls too young to give birth, but
dangerously capable of becoming pregnant.
No, a 12 year old cannot safely give birth
to a full-term healthy child. It won't
happen. Many teen mothers have a hard time
carrying to term due to the size and
development of their bodies. Young girls
in africa die every day due to impacted
babies in their birth canals, and then
both of them die.
Won't that cesarian scar be a wonderful
gift for the raped 12 year old, to remind
her every time she takes a shower how her
daddy forced her down on the bed? Yes,
you're a very caring person.
Quote:
Womens bodies
were designed for child
bearing....
A 12 year old is not a woman, and no, it
was not designed to do such a thing at
such a young age. I recal having this
argument with someone else before on here,
and I am absolutely appaled that anyone
would consider a 12 year old, a 13 year
old, even a 15 year old as capable of
giving birth!!! You know what? I'm done.
You sicken me that you even have these
thoughts. Can you imagine a pedophile
saying your words? "The female body is
designed for sex, even at a young age."
Uuugh!!!
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-17-07 18:54pm
I'm done with this debate.
I cannot fathom someone thinking it is
"okay" for a 12 year old child to
give birth!! If I could be screaming at
you I would. That is absolutely
disgusting. It's sick, it's child abuse on
the highest level.
If that child wanted to give birth,
I'd have a doctor explain to them why it
was so unsafe for them to do so; but if it
was their choice to give birth then
they could certainly do so.
But to deny a child the opportunitty to
avoid the pain only a grown mature woman
should have to feel... to deny the child a
right to reclaim her body, and to live out
her teen years as a normal person...
To deny such things is sick, and child
abuse, and more wrong than just about
anything I can think of. I'd rather see
every woman on birth control use abortion
as birth control, than see one young girl
forced to give birth by
people like you.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-17-07 19:39pm
Eiri
wrote:
Your opinions are naieve because they
innocently assume that the world is a far
simpler place than it actually is. They
are naieve because they view abortion as a
black and white issue, when it is anything
but black and white.
You will condemn a mother and the baby to
death. You will kill two lives instead of
rescuing one. You're the type of person
who, when faced with a decision too save
two people, would let both die because you
don't have the courage to place a value on
life. And so, more death
occurs.
You assume a great deal. You don't know
how I would react in any given
situation...just as I don't know how you
would react. I would never willingly let
even one human life die....if it were in
my power to stop it. Can you say the
same?
Eiri
wrote:
What you don't know (apparently) is that
centuries ago, women were not getting
their periods until they were 15. Female
bodies can handle birth at age 15 (barely
I might add). Nowadays, girls as young as
8 are getting their period, but their
bodies are no more developed than women
from the 1700's. So what he have now are
girls too young to give birth, but
dangerously capable of becoming pregnant.
No, a 12 year old cannot safely give birth
to a full-term healthy child. It won't
happen. Many teen mothers have a hard time
carrying to term due to the size and
development of their bodies. Young girls
in africa die every day due to impacted
babies in their birth canals, and then
both of them
die.
Please show me where you obtained that
info. I find it very interesting and would
like to study up on it. I certainly
wouldn't want to be accused of being
naeive...nor uninformed.
Eiri
wrote:
Won't that cesarian scar be
a wonderful gift for the raped 12 year
old, to remind her every time she takes a
shower how her daddy forced her down on
the bed? Yes, you're a very caring
person.
You are spectacular at putting your own
slant on what I say....too bad you aren't
as good at actually reading what I say.
Btw....not every rape is by the daddy. I
would say you have issues there. I also
said....some 12 yo may want to keep their
baby. If they are old enough to know if
they want an abortion...are they also not
old enough to know if they want to keep
them? Also....why are you giving me all
this power whether women have the right to
abort or not. While I am flattered that
you find me so powerful.....really...all I
can do is voice my opinion. And yes... I
am a very caring person. I haven't b.*t.ch
slapped you yet...now have I?
Eiri
wrote:
A 12 year old is not a
woman, and no, it was not designed to do
such a thing at such a young age. I recal
having this argument with someone else
before on here, and I am absolutely
appaled that anyone would consider a 12
year old, a 13 year old, even a 15 year
old as capable of giving birth!!! You
know what? I'm done.
You sicken me that you even have these
thoughts. It's sick. Can you imagine a
pedophile saying your words? "The female
body is designed for sex, even at a young
age."
Uuugh!!!
Look Eiri...you brought the 12 year old
into the mix...not I....but 12 yo can have
healthy babies and remain healthy
themselves. It has happened down through
the centuries. I did not anywhere say that
I thought it was good or right....I simply
said they could. I also said that my
concern with a 12 yo rape would be more
her mental status than her physical. Once
again....you paraphrase what you "think" I
said....and put your own "sick" slant on
my words. Nowhere did I say or even infer
that I thought 12 yo should have sex or
babies....I merely said it was possible.
I would quit if I were you too
Eiri....your reading/comprehension skills
don't appear to be what is necessary to
carry on a civil debate....and at the rate
you are going....you are merely going to
embarass yourself....so I applaud your
bowing out now....with a little bit of
dignity.
Last edited by trina1 on 06-17-07 20:08pm; edited 1 time in total
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-17-07 19:55pm
Eiri
wrote:
I'm done with this debate.
I cannot fathom someone thinking it is
"okay" for a 12 year old child to
give birth!! If I could be screaming at
you I would. That is absolutely
disgusting. It's sick, it's child abuse on
the highest level.
If that child wanted to give birth,
I'd have a doctor explain to them why it
was so unsafe for them to do so; but if it
was their choice to give birth then
they could certainly do so.
But to deny a child the opportunitty to
avoid the pain only a grown mature woman
should have to feel... to deny the child a
right to reclaim her body, and to live out
her teen years as a normal person...
To deny such things is sick, and child
abuse, and more wrong than just about
anything I can think of. I'd rather see
every woman on birth control use abortion
as birth control, than see one young girl
forced to give birth by
sickos like
you.
You are just sad Eiri that you are so
narrow minded that you can't read what is
actually said without putting your own
slant on it....and then working yourself
up into such a ridiculous frenzy. Why do
you even debate here? You never have your
facts straight, seldom do you ever read
what a post actually says, and you have
absolutely no tolerance for anyones
opinion but your own....unless of course
it is a post agreeing with something you
said. I really have no problem with
you....but you obviously have all kinds of
issues with me. I actually like debating
with you when you stick to what is
actually said.....but I have no tolerance
for you when you get so hysterical over
things you "imagined" were said. If you
want to stick to what I say.....and if you
are not sure of what I mean then ask
me....then I will gladly debate you
anytime....but if you are going to resort
to this kind of sad behavior....then
please don't expect me to acknowledge your
reply's any further.
Just to recap....Eiri brought up 12 yo
rape. I said:To be quite honest....if it is just
based on how harsh it is on her
body...then no I don't believe that she
should have an abortion. Women long before
the 21st century were having babies as
soon as they had their first periods.
Womens bodies were designed for child
bearing....even at a very young age. The
body is not what I would be worried about
in a rape case anyway. It would be her
emotional state. I would be torn between
which would cause her more emotional
termoil....an abortion...or a pregnancy.
Believe it or not....even some 12 year
olds would rather keep their babies.
Now if anyone can show me where I promoted
12 yo sex....please show me. I did say
that if we were basing abortion on a 12 yo
capability of having the child....that I
would not promote abortion. I said that
her mental health would be my concern. The
body can heal....but the mind often has a
much more difficult time after an
abortion. Now for the record, I did not
support, or promote, child abuse,
pedophila, or any of the other atrocities
that Eiri has accused me of. All I did was
anwer her originial question.....in a way
that she did not agree with.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-17-07 21:08pm
a 12 year old can give birth to a healthy
full term baby. there was a 13 year old on
the teen pregnancy forum who gave birth
and was over due (i think) and her baby
was completely healthy and full term.
although she was 13, i don't think she was
very far past her birthday.
and a 15 year old can give birth to a
healthy full term baby, dani is doing it
in a week!
im not trying to get into this debate you
two are having, but i just wanted to point
it out that it's not disgusting, things
happen. of course it's not ideal for a 12
year old to give birth or a 13 or 15 year
old, but it's not disgusting. these two
girls are amazing and are mature beyond
their years, im very proud of them both,
not disgusted.
carry on
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-17-07 21:21pm
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
a 12 year old can give birth
to a healthy full term baby. there was a
13 year old on the teen pregnancy forum
who gave birth and was over due (i think)
and her baby was completely healthy and
full term. although she was 13, i don't
think she was very far past her birthday.
and a 15 year old can give birth to a
healthy full term baby, dani is doing it
in a week!
im not trying to get into this debate you
two are having, but i just wanted to point
it out that it's not disgusting, things
happen. of course it's not ideal for a 12
year old to give birth or a 13 or 15 year
old, but it's not disgusting. these two
girls are amazing and are mature beyond
their years, im very proud of them both,
not disgusted.
carry on
It takes great courage to be so young and
yet to put the needs of the life inside
you ahead of your own for 9 mo. I too find
these young girls amazing. As you
said....sometimes things happen. Sometimes
its rape...and sometimes it is getting
carried away. At any rate....you did back
up my point....that it does happen...it is
possible....it is not ideal....and
certainly no one wants to see it
happen.....but when it does......life for
these girls....will still go on.
Thanks.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-17-07 22:27pm
Just because a 12 year old or an 8 year
old can become pregnant does not mean it
is good for her body, or that she can
survive birth!!
Normal, sane human beings don't put their
bodies through something it cannot
survive, especially when it risks another
life, and even more so when they
themselves are only a child.
Only a *** like you would think this is
right.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-17-07 22:44pm
wow, did you really need to call me an
idiot?
i believe I just said that i was
not getting in the debate between you two,
thank you very much!
im not saying it was right, im just saying
it can happen because you said that it
can't and doesn't happen when it does.
thanks for the personal insult, which i
believe you said you don't do.
Last edited by HcoBrunette06 on 06-17-07 22:47pm; edited 1 time in total
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-17-07 22:47pm
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
wow, did you really need to
call me an fool?
i believe I just said that i was
not getting in the debate between you two,
thank you very much!
im not saying it was right, im just saying
it can happen because you said that it
can't and doesn't happen when it does.
thanks for the personal insult, which i
believe you said you don't
do.
I didn't say it can't, first of all. I
said it was an atrocity when it did. And I
was mostly insulting the first two of
them. Clearly, I cannot continue this line
of debate because I'm too horrified by
them, which is why I tried to end it once
already.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-17-07 22:50pm
hmm well i figured it was at me since i
was stating my opinion on it, i apologize,
but it seemed to fit.
oh well lol
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 06-17-07 23:00pm
You know, it doesn't really matter if a
12-year-old can physically give birth. A
child (CHILD) that age cannot be a mother
and cannot psychologically grasp her new
responsibility or the meaning of it.
Anyone who would put a child through
that....well, let's just say I hope they
never have the responsibility of being a
parent.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-17-07 23:57pm
Jude-Love
wrote:
You know, it doesn't really
matter if a 12-year-old can physically
give birth. A child (CHILD) that age
cannot be a mother and cannot
psychologically grasp her new
responsibility or the meaning of it.
Anyone who would put a child through
that....well, let's just say I hope they
never have the responsibility of being a
parent.
Thank you jude. Someone else who
understands what I'm trying to say.
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trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:07am
Jude-Love
wrote:
You know, it doesn't really
matter if a 12-year-old can physically
give birth. A child (CHILD) that age
cannot be a mother and cannot
psychologically grasp her new
responsibility or the meaning of it.
Anyone who would put a child through
that....well, let's just say I hope they
never have the responsibility of being a
parent.
You are exactly right. We are talking
about children here. We are not talking
about your run of the mill hormally
charged older teens....we are talking
about little girls who have barely gotten
their periods and who become victims of
rape. We are also not talking necessarily
about these children keeping their babies
after they are born. We are talking about
"if" they choose to carry them to
term....whether their bodies are
physically capable of rebounding from the
pregnancy and birth. Obviously no 12 yo
(or 13-at the very least 17 yo) is
emotionally capable or responsible enough
to raise a child on their own. That is why
in many of these cases either the
grandparent steps in or the child is put
up for adoption. No one here even remotely
suggested that a 12 yo could or should be
allowed to take care of a baby on her own.
Heck....most 12 yo are barely of
babysitting age....let alone parenting
age.
As far as this whole 12 yo question is
concerned....I was curious to find out
about statistics. I have worked with the
pro-life movement for years and I couldn't
think of any case in my experience where
someone that young who had been raped got
pregnant(not that I am sure it hasn't
happened)....but I was curious...so I did
some research.
From my work and past experience working
with both local ER's and ob/gyns in crisis
situations.....although many give the
morning after pill as a
precaution.....fewer than 5% of rape cases
result in pregnancy....because of the
stress levels of the woman at the time of
the rape.
As far as girls under 14 getting pregnant
period....the statistics I found that in
2002....the birth rate was 3.6%....the
abortion rate was 3.9% and the overall
pregnancy rate was 8.6%.
guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.p
df
What this is basically saying is....that
in right at half the cases of all
pregnancies of girls 14 and under.....they
deliver their babies. As far as statistics
for 12 yo....I couldn't find any.....which
probably says the percentage rate is
miniscual. (Mind you these were all U.S.
statistics I was looking at. This does not
necessarily reflect other
countries....where chances are
statitistics aren't even available.)
Okay....so like has already been
stated....it does happen. No one here
regardless of position on abortion wants
to see any 15 or under girl get
pregnant...but it happens....and according
to the above statitistics...it happens a
lot less now than it did in the 70's and
80's. The point is though...if it happens
and they choose not to abort....their
bodies *can* take it....and obviously in
most cases they will survive.
Last edited by trina1 on 06-18-07 00:11am; edited 1 time in total
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:10am
Eiri
wrote:
God, you idiots. Just
because a 12 year old or an 8 year old can
become pregnant does not mean it is good
for her body, or that she can survive
birth!!
Good point...the old Just because you
can do something....doesn't
mean you should scenario.
Kind of like...just because you can have
an abortion doesn't mean it is good for
the womans body....and we all know that
only one is going to come out alive.
|
Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 06-18-07 00:25am
trina1
wrote:
We are also not talking
necessarily about these children keeping
their babies after they are born. We are
talking about "if" they choose to carry
them to term....Whether their bodies are
physically capable of rebounding from the
pregnancy and birth. Obviously no 12 yo
(or 13-at the very least 17 yo) is
emotionally capable or responsible enough
to raise a child on their own. That is why
in many of these cases either the
grandparent steps in or the child is put
up for adoption. No one here even remotely
suggested that a 12 yo could or should be
allowed to take care of a baby on her
own.
Even if the child doesn't end up being the
baby's guardian, it still means a great
psychological trauma for her. She doesn't
completely forget all about what happened
just because she doesn't have a baby.
I just think there is a lot more to
consider and pro-lifers tend to minimize
the psychological effects of a situation
like this because it's attractive to them
and their ideals.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:26am
Eiri
wrote:
Normal, sane human beings
don't put their bodies through something
it cannot
survive, especially when it risks
another life, and even more so when they
themselves are only a child.
I want you here and now to show me proof
that these young girls bodies cannot
survive child birth?
Now let me type s.l.o.w. so maybe you can
understand this once and for all. No one
thinks it is a good thing for a girl 12-15
to be pregnant. No one here is excited
that someone this young finds themself in
this situation...however....if it happens
and they *choose* (remember choice?
) to carry that pregnancy to term....they
can have a healthy pregnancy, a healthy
delivery, and a healthy life afterwards. A
12 yo pregnancy is *****not****** an
automatic death sentence. Do you
understand that?
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