Normal, sane human beings
don't put their bodies through something
it cannot
survive, especially when it risks
another life, and even more so when they
themselves are only a child.
I want you here and now to show me proof
that these young girls bodies cannot
survive child birth?
12 yo pregnancy is *****not****** an
automatic death sentence. Do you
understand
that?
I will go get the proof you seek. And then
I want you to apoligize.
Would you like to take a gander as to why
these young girls die?
It's because they don't have access to
doctors who can help via cecsarian section
and other life-saving birth techniques.
I give you these links because this is
what happens to young girls when they give
birth versus what happens to older women
of proper birthing age. More young girls
die due to complications that adult women.
In america, these little girls get the
proper medical care, but left in the hands
of nature, they die.
If that's not a death sentence, I don't
know what is.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:40am
Jude-Love
wrote:
Even if the child doesn't
end up being the baby's guardian, it still
means a great psychological trauma for
her. She doesn't completely forget all
about what happened just because she
doesn't have a
baby.
That is right....and if she got pregnant
because of a bad choice(we are not talking
rape here)...then maybe knowing that all
choices have consequences will help her to
make better choices in the future. Bottom
line....who goes through life without some
sort of psychological trauma? Who goes
through life without having to face the
consequences of wrong choices? Having a
baby is not like watching a parent commit
suicide, or having an incurable disease.
Being pregnant from time to time is
somewhat uncomfortable, for a high school
girl...probably embarassing, and most
likely not something they would wish for
themselves on a permanent basis.....but it
is also a learning experience of how to
make better choices and to face the
consequences of their less than stellar
ones.
Jude-Love
wrote:
I just think there is a lot
more to consider and pro-lifers tend to
minimize the psychological effects of a
situation like this because it's
attractive to them and their
ideals.
You are wrong. I have never minimized the
psychological effects of women who find
themselves pregnant, scared, and afraid of
making the wrong choice (I myself have
been there). Regardless of what you might
believe....I have never told any
woman/girl what to do about their
pregnancy. Legally...no pl'r can force
anyone into their way of thinking or out
of an abortion....all I/we can do is give
them info for what help and assistance is
out there for them both emotionally and
physically if they *choose* to keep their
baby. I have spent many a long hour
talking to women who have decided to keep
their babies....and women who have
aborted....and quite honestly....some of
the more psychologically traumatized
women/girls...have been the ones who have
aborted and then later regreted their
decision. So please....don't think I have
ever minimized the emotional roller
coaster that these women go through.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-18-07 00:44am
Here's some more proof that young bodies
are not made for birth:
choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/1879.html
This one is a pdf file.
icrw.org/docs/2006_cmtoolkit/cm_factsheets
_health.pdf
"Girls younger than 15 are five times more
likely to die in childbirth."
I like this one. It's even christian.
umc-gbcs.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=f
sJNK0PKJrH&b=969371&content_id=%7B
7E514F7A-EBA1-4961-97E8-001C57C13E97%7D&am
p;notoc=1
"Many young married girls become pregnant
far before their bodies have developed and
face the life-threatening process of
obstructed births. This is a birth when
the mother's bone structure is simply too
tiny to deliver a child. Cesarean sections
are not an option."
Am I freaking lying? Huh? No, I'm not!!
Birth Is A Death Sentence For Young
Girls.
Pregnancy Is Not The Healthy Or Smart
Choice.
Get it through your minds.
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:49am
Eiri
wrote:
trina1
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
Normal, sane human beings
don't put their bodies through something
it cannot
survive, especially when it risks
another life, and even more so when they
themselves are only a child.
I want you here and now to show me proof
that these young girls bodies cannot
survive child birth?
12 yo pregnancy is *****not****** an
automatic death sentence. Do you
understand
that?
I will go get the proof you seek. And then
I want you to apoligize.
populationmedia.org/issues/women.html
Would you like to take a gander as to why
these young girls die?
It's because they don't have access to
doctors who can help via cecsarian section
and other life-saving birth techniques.
I give you these links because this is
what happens to young girls when they give
birth versus what happens to older women
of proper birthing age. More young girls
die due to complications that adult women.
In america, these little girls get the
proper medical care, but left in the hands
of nature, they die.
If that's not a death sentence, I don't
know what is.
Apologize for what? I have called you no
names. And all the links you gave were for
girls in other countries....where medical
care is poor for everyone....not just
pregnant young girls. Last I knew we were
talking about the US....but I will give
you props for at least making the effort
to back up your opinions. Also....by
posting those links...you have probably
educated some people on the atrocities of
healthcare in other countries. I commend
you whole heartedly for that.
Tell you what Eiri....you apologize for
all the times you have disrespected both
me and my opinions, misread and misquoted
my posts, and put your own slant on words
I have said....and I will apologize for
not kissing your rear-end on here and
telling you that I agree with every word
you say...just so you can always be right.
How about that?
Last edited by trina1 on 06-18-07 01:13am; edited 1 time in total
|
trina1
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 528 Location: , Lost in Oz.
Posted: 06-18-07 00:54am
Eiri
wrote:
Here's some more proof that
young bodies are not made for birth:
choike.org/nuevo_eng/informes/1879.html
This one is a pdf file.
icrw.org/docs/2006_cmtoolkit/cm_factsheets
_health.pdf
"Girls younger than 15 are five times more
likely to die in childbirth."
I like this one. It's even christian.
umc-gbcs.org/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=f
sJNK0PKJrH&b=969371&content_id=%7B
7E514F7A-EBA1-4961-97E8-001C57C13E97%7D&am
p;notoc=1
"Many young married girls become pregnant
far before their bodies have developed and
face the life-threatening process of
obstructed births. This is a birth when
the mother's bone structure is simply too
tiny to deliver a child. Cesarean sections
are not an option."
Am I freaking lying? Huh? No, I'm not!!
Birth Is A Death Sentence For Young
Girls.
Pregnancy Is Not The Healthy Or Smart
Choice.
Get it through your
minds.
Who are you arguing with? Who said you
were lying? I merely said that it is
possible and in many cases quite probable
for a young girl to deliver a healthy
child in a healthy delivery. There are
always going to be cases where it is
dangerous, and unhealthy....even in older
women. Bottom line is....we all hope that
the cases where this happens to young
girls are few and far between. According
to the statitistics....the cases are going
down. Thank you for the links....as
usual....I have found your posts quite
interesting. Thank you. Now it is time for
bed.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-18-07 10:58am
Hey guys, just ask eiri about a 12 yo who
is seven months pregnant. She's hid it
from her parents until now.
What now?
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-18-07 11:05am
Since I've been ranting about people on
this thread, I figure, why let a good
thing die. (No pun intended, really.)
Last night I found six bucks in cash
someone had left behind at one of those
"you check yourself out" things at the
store. I gave it to the cashier. Who
crumpled it up in his hand. It traveled
towards his pocket. I made sure he saw me
watching him. He looked at me and glanced
away. He played that little furtive
glance game with me again.
Unable to ignore the pink elephant, I
said, "whaddya gonna do with that?"
He gets all indignant..."I'm going to put
it in the drawer".
"Yeah, what are you waiting for?"
He huffed a little. But I was buying a
bottle of wine, and he gave me a hard time
about my ID. Yeah, I'll hit the big 3-0
next year, thanks for the compliment. I
turned towards him again. He was still
watching me, and maybe had the money in
his hand, I don't know.
On the way out the door, I turned to him
and said, "you know, that's the kind of
thing that comes back to you and bites you
hard on the arse." He just got all huffy
as if he hadn't done a thing wrong.
Alright, sure, it's six bucks. He
probably makes just over six bucks in an
hour. It's tempting for him to just
pocket it. but he's a young kid, and I'm
not going to watch a young kid steal and
not say something.
I just hate people. Where are the good
ones? Can I go there?
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-18-07 11:15am
seriously it seems like you run into all
the lousy ones lol
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-18-07 11:56am
Birch
wrote:
Hey guys, just ask eiri
about a 12 yo who is seven months
pregnant. She's hid it from her parents
until now.
What now?
I'm surprised she hasn't gone into labor
yet to be entirely honest.
There are cases when it's too late to
abort, obviously. But that child needs
immediate medical care so that when she
does go into labor, the doctors can be
there when there are complications, and
also care for the baby, which will most
likely be small and premature.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-18-07 11:58am
And I am in the right for this
conversation, as you were attempting to
tell me that it is not deadly for a 12
year old to be pregnant. I just showed you
that it is, and that a 12 year old's body
is not made for pregnancy.
|
Dannzibelle
Supporter
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 Location: South East, England
Thanks: 30
Thanked:11
Posted: 06-18-07 12:01pm
Eiri
wrote:
And I am in the right for
this conversation, as you were attempting
to tell me that it is not deadly for a 12
year old to be pregnant. I just showed you
that it is, and that a 12 year old's body
is not made for
pregnancy.
Just out of interest can you pm me about
this story, last year there was an 11 year
old over here who was pregnant, i have no
idea what happened though there was lots
of talk about it in the news and press etc
but we never found out when she had it.
The girls mother was a herion addict and
let her pregnant 11 year old smoke both
cigs and weed freely in the house
|
meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2132 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Another Way to Look At It.. Posted: 06-18-07 12:21pm
Should a girl of 12-18 of age have a say
about her body? Should it not be up to the
parents what happened if a girl of that
age gets pregnant? After all the parent is
responsible for the child until a certain
age. If it is her body to do whatever she
wants then what reasonability does the
parent have over a pregnancy or any other
thing she might want to do... So at what
age does a girl (women) have a right to
say it is her body to do what she wants
with it. What would you want a say in if
it was your chilld? And up to what age?
Just a thought.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Re: Another Way to Look At It.. Posted: 06-18-07 13:48pm
meblonde01
wrote:
Should a girl of 12-18 of
age have a say about her body? Should it
not be up to the parents what happened if
a girl of that age gets pregnant? After
all the parent is responsible for the
child until a certain age. If it is her
body to do whatever she wants then what
reasonability does the parent have over a
pregnancy or any other thing she might
want to do... So at what age does a girl
(women) have a right to say it is her body
to do what she wants with it. What would
you want a say in if it was your chilld?
And up to what age?
Just a
thought.
Informed consent?
It's tough. Parents should know what the
heck is going on with their kids. You
wouldn't let your kid get a tooth
extracted, or an ear pierced without
knowing about it, and abortion is a
surgery, so they should know, right?
On the other hand, if you need a law
forcing a parent to be involved in their
child's life, what kind of parent is that?
One a girl wouldn't want to tell about
her pregnancy, I'd gander.
Kids have no rights, too, and that makes
me sick. Having grown up in a household
where I did not have "personhood" status
(long story), I get touchy about parents
making decisions for their kids while
completely disregarding what their kids
want. Kids are humans, too, and should
have some say in what happens to them.
There should be tests to be parents, there
really should.
|
Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 06-18-07 15:48pm
trina1
wrote:
And if she got pregnant
because of a bad choice(we are not talking
rape here)...Then maybe knowing that all
choices have consequences will help her to
make better choices in the
future.
I'm sorry, but I don't care if she made a
bad choice. She is still a child. A
12-year-old had better not be held
accountable for that in my opinion-if she
got pregnant because she willingly had
sex, I'd have to wonder where her terribly
bright parents were when it happened.
Regardless, we don't risk someone's mental
or physical health as a means of punishing
them for choices we think are bad.
trina1
wrote:
Bottom line....Who goes
through life without some sort of
psychological trauma? Who goes through
life without having to face the
consequences of wrong choices? Having a
baby is not like watching a parent commit
suicide, or having an incurable
disease.
The fact that many people experience
trauma in there life is not an excuse to
disregard the girl's feelings. Having an
abortion doesn't mean you aren't facing
the consequences-that is your story
because it is a method that you don't
agree with. A girl who doesn't face the
consequences hides her pregnancy and then
dumps the baby in the dumpster behind her
high school on prom night or throws it
into a lake, to keep it all a secret.
That is someone who is not dealing with
what is happening. And I think the former
situation is a much prettier picture.
You may think that having a baby is no big
deal for you or for another adult, but it
is a whole different ball game for a
child.
trina1
wrote:
Being pregnant from time to
time is somewhat uncomfortable, for a high
school girl...Probably embarassing, and
most likely not something they would wish
for themselves on a permanent
basis...
trina1
wrote:
I have never minimized the
psychological effects of women who find
themselves pregnant, scared, and afraid of
making the wrong choice (i myself have
been there).
The two aren't making sense to me. You
describe pregnancy as "somewhat
uncomfortable" and "probably embarassing".
For a high school girl. Not only is that
quite the understatement in many
situations besides teenagers, it is the
understatement of the year when we are
talking about a child.
And again, that is where you are
minimizing what making the choice to carry
a pregnancy means, as a way to make it
seem like a better choice.
trina1
wrote:
I have never told any
woman/girl what to do about their
pregnancy.
I never accused you of doing so, so I
don't know why you would even make the
assumption I might think you have.
meblonde01
wrote:
What would you want a say in
if it was your chilld? And up to what
age?
If it were my child, I wouldn't make the
decision for her, but I wouldn't let her
make it alone. I'd get her counseling. I
will say one thing though-I sure as hell
wouldn't let her make a decision that
would risk her life or put her in harm's
way. She's my child and it's my job to
protect HER-NOT my ideals.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-18-07 18:31pm
so you wouldn't let her make the decision
to keep the child and carry on the
pregnancy because giving birth would put
her in harms way? well you can't force an
abortion.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-18-07 18:36pm
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
so you wouldn't let her make
the decision to keep the child and carry
on the pregnancy because giving birth
would put her in harms way? well you can't
force an
abortion.
She would refuse to put her daughter in
harms way for a parasitic fetus. If my
daughter was too young as well, I also
would do everything I could to prevent
harm to her; and if she was crazy intent
on having the child, I would take her to
dozens of doctors and all have them tell
her their opinions.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-18-07 19:13pm
well that's fine, but in the end if she
doesn't change her mind you still can't
force her to have an abortion no matter
what her age is. i understand and i
wouldn't want my 12 year old to have a
baby either, that'd be scary so i
understand.
|
Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 06-18-07 20:09pm
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
So you wouldn't let her make
the decision to keep the child and carry
on the pregnancy because giving birth
would put her in harms way? Well you can't
force an
abortion.
It would depend. If there was more of a
chance than if she were an adult woman,
but it was still minimal, probably not.
But if a doctor told me that it was not a
good idea, I absolutely would not have it.
I don't plan to raise my child to be that
stupid, to be perfectly frank. I'm quite
sure that if the risk were explained to
her, she would want to save her life too.
|
HcoBrunette06
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 8016 Location: Florida, United States
Thanks: 3
Thanked:1
Posted: 06-18-07 21:14pm
lol okay well we won't get into the debate
about what your future child will or will
not do, it's been done before and only
causes drama, because in the end they make
their own decisions.
|
Dannzibelle
Supporter
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 Location: South East, England
Thanks: 30
Thanked:11
Re: Another Way to Look At It.. Posted: 06-19-07 04:05am
meblonde01
wrote:
Should a girl of 12-18 of
age have a say about her body? Should it
not be up to the parents what happened if
a girl of that age gets pregnant? After
all the parent is responsible for the
child until a certain age. If it is her
body to do whatever she wants then what
reasonability does the parent have over a
pregnancy or any other thing she might
want to do... So at what age does a girl
(women) have a right to say it is her body
to do what she wants with it. What would
you want a say in if it was your chilld?
And up to what age?
Just a
thought.
If it was my daughter then i would hope
that she would see from how difficult it
has been for me at my age that she would
be very very carefull, i used
contraception correctly and still got
pregnant so i hope if she decides to have
sex before she wants to try for a child
that she will always back up
contraception, but i can't force her to.
I can't tell you want age because i'm not
in that position yet, everyone sees their
children as their babies even when they're
in their 40's, i know my grnadmother still
calls my mum and aunties her babies and
they're all in their 40's one's nearing
50. At the end of the unless you chain
your child to a bed and don't let them out
of the house until you deem it a suitable
age for them to have sex then there's not
much you can do about it, if they want to
have sex then they will find a way to have
sex no matter what. In my opinion all you
can do is educate your child about the
danger's of sex, safe sex, std's,
pregnancy etc and trust them to take that
on board when they think it is the right
time for them to have a sexual
relationship
