Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3688 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 52
Thanked:57
Irish Teen In Court Abortion Plea Posted: 05-03-07 10:01am
http://news.
bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6618911.stm .
A 17-year-old pregnant Irish girl is
appearing in the High Court in Dublin to
press for the right to travel to Britain
for an abortion.
Doctors have told the girl that her
four-month foetus will not live more than
a few days beyond birth.
She is in the care of Ireland's health
service which has issued an order stopping
her from going to Britain.
But a lawyer for the girl argued that the
health authority had no right to stop her
travelling.
Eoghan Fitzsimons told the court that
police had responded to a request by the
Health Service Executive (HSE) to prevent
her leaving the country, saying they could
not and would not do so without a court
order.
Abortion is illegal in Ireland except
where the mother's life is threatened by a
medical condition or suicide.
Thousands of Irish women get around the
ban by privately travelling to the UK,
where abortion was legalised in 1967, to
undergo terminations.
Mr Fitzsimons said it was inhumane to
expect the girl to carry the foetus for
the full nine months only for it to die.
She was deeply distressed by the diagnosis
and a travel ban was tantamount to
degrading treatment, he was quoted by PA
as saying.
The teenager, known only as Miss D, comes
from the Leinster region and has been
under the guardianship of the HSE -
Ireland's national health service - since
March.
Even though she is in care, the girl's
mother, known as Miss A, has come out in
support of her daughter's wish, as has her
boyfriend who launched the legal appeal on
her behalf since Miss D is still a minor.
Miss D was informed last month that her
foetus has anencephaly, a condition which
means that a large part of the brain and
skull is missing.
Babies with anencephaly live a maximum of
just three days after birth.
A psychiatrist appointed by the HSE said
that the teenager was distraught at the
diagnosis, but not suicidal, and therefore
did not meet the criteria for being
allowed a termination.
Both sides in the case have agreed that
the case be rushed through the court
system as soon as possible.
Pro-choice groups Choice Ireland and
Alliance for Choice were planning a rally
outside the court to show support for the
teenager.
"No woman should have to endure the trauma
of carrying to full term a child who will
not live more than a few hours," a
spokeswoman for the groups said.
"Miss D is another case of several that
have gone before and will come again that
highlight the flaws in Irish abortion law.
Without legislation to deal with this
issue, yet more Irish women in difficult
situations will have to be dragged through
the courts," she added.
|
sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2689
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Posted: 05-03-07 10:08am
Why should any woman have to go before a
judge or a court to beg for the right to
do what she wants with her own body???
This makes me furious!
Why should any woman have to
go before a judge or a court to beg for
the right to do what she wants with her
own body??? This makes me
furious!
Ditto.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3769 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 85
Thanked:11
Posted: 05-03-07 12:47pm
"A psychiatrist appointed by the HSE said
that the teenager was distraught at the
diagnosis, but not suicidal, and therefore
did not meet the criteria for being
allowed a termination."
Ridiculous that she would have to be
suicidal to have a termination. It's so
degrading. You have to be mentally ill to
get an abortion? That's crap. Laws need
changed.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 05-03-07 13:14pm
THis makes me so furious!!! That poor
girl... god, I feel for her. I hope she
gets the right to leave the country. This
is tantamount to kidnapping if you think
about it!!!
|
Becky
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 6220 Location: London, England
Thanks: 0
Thanked:7
Posted: 05-03-07 15:05pm
oh my gosh that is awful. i feel so sorry
for her. i hope the court decides in her
favour
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cherry88
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 May 2006 Posts: 633 Location: ,
Posted: 05-03-07 15:48pm
sillyakchick
wrote:
Why should any woman have to
go before a judge or a court to beg for
the right to do what she wants with her
own body??? This makes me
furious!
indeed.
whatever happened to a free country.
|
Gu£st
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 674 Location: SUBMERGED IN TRUTH
Posted: 05-03-07 18:41pm
I dont believe in Abortion and I am
pleased Ireland has a laws against
abortion, but they have no right to stop
her travelling.
However if she is permitted to travel and
has an abortion and returns to Ireland
then serious consideration should be given
to if she murdered a Irish citizen or not
if she can be tried under the abortion
laws.
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 05-03-07 20:03pm
Gu£st
wrote:
I dont believe in Abortion
and I am pleased Ireland has a laws
against abortion, but they have no right
to stop her travelling.
However if she is permitted to travel and
has an abortion and returns to Ireland
then serious consideration should be given
to if she not a nice acted a Irish citizen
or not if she can be tried under the
abortion laws.
NO consideration
should be taken. It is not murder. It
is abortion. Secondly, she will have
gotten the abortion in a country where it
is legal.
It is not illegal for american citizens to
smoke marijuanna in switzerland. They will
not be arrested upon their return to
america.
No country has the right to say "you went
somewhere and did something we consider
illegal, here, we're arresting you"
because the entire reason the person went
to the other country was to have the freedom
to do the act. If a country doesn't want
to give their citizens the freedom of
travel, then they become like cuba or now
ireland.
This restricted travel is a blow against
one of the most basic human rights. I'm
glad that you at least are against the
restricted travel, however your desire to
punish the girl on her return is
absolutely horrible.
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Dannzibelle
Supporter
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 3742 Location: South East, England
Thanks: 22
Thanked:10
Posted: 05-04-07 05:17am
So the baby won't survive after birth?
Even though i personally don't like
abortion i do think it would be kinder to
the woman to have an abortion because i
just couldn't imagine carrying a child
full term knowing that i'll have to say
goodbye after a few days
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1168 Location: ,
Thanks: 20
Thanked:6
Posted: 05-04-07 07:42am
Gu£st
wrote:
I dont believe in Abortion
and I am pleased Ireland has a laws
against abortion, but they have no right
to stop her travelling.
However if she is permitted to travel and
has an abortion and returns to Ireland
then serious consideration should be given
to if she not a nice acted a Irish citizen
or not if she can be tried under the
abortion laws.
What part of "Babies with anencephaly live
a maximum of just three days after birth.
" confuses you? This fetus is doomed it
WILL die anyway, what is the point in
forcing gestation of a dead fetus?
The emotional scars alone this will leave
on the girl ought to bring compassion not
abuse and harassment by knuckleheads who
can't seem to grasp that the fetus will
die anyway.
This is a terrible story. Fair enough if
Ireland's laws disallow abortions (with
which I do have a problem, although that's
irrelevant to what I find particularly
abhorrent in this case), however they
cannot stop you from travelling, whatever
the reason! If this girl wants to have a
termination abroad, she is entitled to;
the result of her action must comply with
the legislations of the country in which
it took place. It would be completely
different if she was going to fly out of
Ireland to commit an illegal
act, but she isn't.
I hope this case is at least beneficial in
some way to show the world how
totalitarianism does not work.
Kypros.
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jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 05-04-07 20:37pm
Kypros
wrote:
This is a terrible story.
Fair enough if Ireland's laws disallow
abortions (with which I do have a problem,
although that's irrelevant to what I find
particularly abhorrent in this case),
however they cannot stop you from
travelling, whatever the reason!
This is one of the things
that I bring up to people who want to see
abortion rights overturned in the .u.s.
The freedom to decide what happens in and
to our bodies is tied to all of our other
freedoms - the freedom to move that body,
use that body to work and support
ourselves, and the freedom to seek an
equal standing in life as the men around
us. If abortion rights were turned over
to the states (which is what would happen
if the supreme court overturned roe),
some states would provide legal protection
for abortion and some states would not.
Women who want to obtain an abortion will
have to travel to one of these other
states. What's to stop the federal or
some state governments from deciding that
.women have to carry the laws of their
home state when they travel?
People laugh when I say this and claim
that it will never happen but then I bring
up the CIERRA (or CIENNA, I can't remember
the correct acronym) laws. These federal
laws state that it is illegal for a family
member, friend, or the young woman herself
to transport a minor across state lines to
obtain an abortion. When you read the
language of the law, it becomes readily
apparent that young women now have to
carry the laws of their state on their
backs. Therefore if it is nearly
impossible for a young woman to get an
abortion in her state, she can be tried
and convicted for going to another state
for an abortion even if she is actually closer to
the provider in the next state. It
is possible, even currently legal (the
constitutionality has not yet been
challenged), that these restrictions can
easily be applied to older .women.
So, if abortion is returned as a state
issue and your state wants to prevent you
from obtaining an abortion at all costs
(like .ireland and .texas), you can rest
assured that travelling restrictions will
eventually come into play because how else
can they ensure that you are compelled to
gestate every pregnancy.
Don't like that level of facism? Neither
do I. With abortion legal, you don't face
this level because the individual .woman
is able to decide for herself whether an
abortion is necessary or not. With
abortion criminalized (as it is in
.ireland), the government decides for you
the status of your pregnancy and they
could, in the name of protecting potential
life, severely limit your individual
rights and freedoms.
Just some food for thought.
My thoughts and hopes are with this young
.woman. What is occurring in .ireland is
a disgusting travesty and abuse.
Peace,
Jenn
This is a terrible story.
Fair enough if Ireland's laws disallow
abortions (with which I do have a problem,
although that's irrelevant to what I find
particularly abhorrent in this case),
however they cannot stop you from
travelling, whatever the reason!
This is one of the things
that I bring up to people who want to see
abortion rights overturned in the .u.s.
The freedom to decide what happens in and
to our bodies is tied to all of our other
freedoms - the freedom to move that body,
use that body to work and support
ourselves, and the freedom to seek an
equal standing in life as the men around
us. If abortion rights were turned over
to the states (which is what would happen
if the supreme court overturned roe),
some states would provide legal protection
for abortion and some states would not.
Women who want to obtain an abortion will
have to travel to one of these other
states. What's to stop the federal or
some state governments from deciding that
.women have to carry the laws of their
home state when they travel?
People laugh when I say this and claim
that it will never happen but then I bring
up the CIERRA (or CIENNA, I can't remember
the correct acronym) laws. These federal
laws state that it is illegal for a family
member, friend, or the young woman herself
to transport a minor across state lines to
obtain an abortion. When you read the
language of the law, it becomes readily
apparent that young women now have to
carry the laws of their state on their
backs. Therefore if it is nearly
impossible for a young woman to get an
abortion in her state, she can be tried
and convicted for going to another state
for an abortion even if she is actually closer to
the provider in the next state. It
is possible, even currently legal (the
constitutionality has not yet been
challenged), that these restrictions can
easily be applied to older .women.
So, if abortion is returned as a state
issue and your state wants to prevent you
from obtaining an abortion at all costs
(like .ireland and .texas), you can rest
assured that travelling restrictions will
eventually come into play because how else
can they ensure that you are compelled to
gestate every pregnancy.
Don't like that level of facism? Neither
do I. With abortion legal, you don't face
this level because the individual .woman
is able to decide for herself whether an
abortion is necessary or not. With
abortion criminalized (as it is in
.ireland), the government decides for you
the status of your pregnancy and they
could, in the name of protecting potential
life, severely limit your individual
rights and freedoms.
Just some food for thought.
My thoughts and hopes are with this young
.woman. What is occurring in .ireland is
a disgusting travesty and abuse.
Peace,
Jenn
I thoroughly agree. This is fascism,
misogyny, authoritarianism, and gender
inequality (after all only women are being
restricted from travelling, not men) at
its probable worst, particularly in
juxtaposition with the supposed modern,
21st century society in which we live. As
an individualist, governmental
intervention in being able to do what we
please with what we own repulses me.
Although I'm going slightly out of the
borders fo this discussion, if a man
wanted to go to Saudi Arabia to rape and
homicide a woman (where it is legal to do
so, since women are rendered rightless and
male property), he should be allowed. As
controversial as it may sound, I still
feel I'm correct. In no way do I condone
such a person's actions, but since the act
will have taken place in a country where
it is not illegal, I would equally oppose
his potential arrest upon his return to
Britain - any imprisonment or legal action
against a person must be carried out on
par with the laws of the nation in which the
'crime' was carried out. A better
example would be that that rings true to
many British nationals - euthanasia being
done in Switzerland. Many terminally ill
people fly there to end their life and
they have the complete right to do so, in
my eyes.
Kypros.
|
jenn_smithson
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 808 Location: Texas
Posted: 05-29-07 23:30pm
It's been a while since this was an active
topic and I wasn't sure if you all had
heard the news or not. The young woman in
Ireland was granted permission to travel
to England for the abortion due to fetal
defect and deformity.
Quote:
Earlier this
month, an Irish teen in state care went to
court after the girl's legal guardian--the
state health service--issued an order
stopping her from going to Britain to
abort her fatally brain-damaged fetus.
The 17-year-old woman--identified only as
Miss D--won the case when the judge upheld
her right to
travel.
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