Personally, I agree with
Llewellyn, and yes, I would have said
those things to the girl's face too. It
would have been peppered in with consoling
her and giving kind advice, but yeah. Part
of me would have gone "You do realize
you've cause un-fixable harm to the
fetus?"
But why? What would that have donel? Why
is it a stranger's place to tell her what
may not even be true? No one knows the
extent of damage.
Help me understand, Eiri! I'm being
sincere.
In the unlikely event this actually
happened, I would have said to her (among
other things-like, 'how are you feeling
now') 'I have no idea what may have
happened, lets get you to a doctor to find
out'. I would certainly not have
compounded her own grief with the
condemnation of a complete stranger.
What does a prochoicer care what the
mother did to the fetus if her intent was
to abort it? How can they then turn
around after finding out the mother wants
to keep the fetus and be a turdling about
what she may have done to the
fetus?
Because now that she has chosen to keep
it, she must step up to what she has done
it it. I think it's a pretty simple
concept...
And a stranger gets to tell that to her
because...?
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-13-07 13:15pm
Because she came anonymously to a public
forum. If she'd wanted someone she knew to
tell her, then she would have asked
someone she knew.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4160 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-13-07 15:50pm
Eiri
wrote:
Because she came anonymously
to a public forum. If she'd wanted someone
she knew to tell her, then she would have
asked someone she
knew.
Okay, I think i know what you mean.
Person comes to forum, subjects themselves
to the whims of others on here, so posters
responding are freed from the laws of
civility. I can understand this thinking
process in regards to online forums, but
in person? I still don't understand how
that is helpful. I'd like to think you
would not walk up to this girl on the
street and give her a guilty earful when
the facts of the matter are unknown.
And I still cannot reconcile supporting
the mother's desire for an abortion (being
prochoice), and then when she was forced
to keep the child by her parents turning a
180 and giving her carp for 'what she did
to the poor baby'.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-13-07 17:36pm
She was not forced by her parents. She was
forced by the pure fact that she is too
far along for an abortion. Waiting was her
fault, not the fetus'. She still might
have been able to obtain an abortion, and
may still be able to once the doctors see
how badly the fetus is damaged.
But in her post, she seemed very intent on
giving birth to this child. she said it
herself. She's done so much to it now,
that she might as well see it through and
raise it. Those are her words. She's
determined to give birth... and that makes
her a mother that now needs to deal with
the fact that she abused her unborn child.
Yes, I do believe this is reason for a
180. Not in the "you are horrible for
having done those things!" but in the
"okay, well, you did these things, and
they were not good for you, or the child
you have decided to give birth to. Now you
have decided to take responsibility for
these things, and so we're not going to
gloss it over".
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Llewellyn
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 1743 Location: NY
Posted: 06-14-07 15:36pm
Eiri
wrote:
"okay, well, you did these
things, and they were not good for you, or
the child you have decided to give birth
to. Now you have decided to take
responsibility for these things, and so
we're not going to gloss it
over".
That's the way that I feel too. Sort of
a, "Ok, you made a mistake, and you know
that now. Let's talk about it so that we
can turn it into a learning experience and
talk about the possible consequences so
that you can understand the situation
better and be a little prepared for what
the doctor might say when you go in,"
thing.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4160 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-14-07 17:01pm
That is a far cry from what you said
originally.
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Llewellyn
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 1743 Location: NY
Posted: 06-14-07 17:18pm
Birch
wrote:
That is a far cry from what
you said
originally.
How so? If you misunderstood me, or took
what I said the wrong way, or just plain
can't accept the fact that someone in the
world might disagree with you, that does
not make me a bad person. Again, I am not
sure what your goal is with all of this.
I would just as soon agree to disagree
because I still don't have a problem with
what I said.
If you ever think something I say is harsh
and are wondering if I meant it to be that
harsh, you can always just ask me. You
can say something like, "Did you mean that
to be that harsh?" or "What do you mean by
that exactly?" rather than just slinging
insults from the start. If you ask me to
clarify, I will. I would even apologize
for the confusion if anyone misunderstood
me and took what I said the wrong way.
However, when someone starts slinging
insults from the start, then I am not
going to apologize to them.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4160 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-14-07 18:13pm
Llewellyn
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
That is a far cry from what
you said
originally.
How so? If you misunderstood me, or took
what I said the wrong way, or just plain
can't accept the fact that someone in the
world might disagree with you, that does
not make me a bad person. Again, I am not
sure what your goal is with all of this.
I would just as soon agree to disagree
because I still don't have a problem with
what I said.
If you ever think something I say is harsh
and are wondering if I meant it to be that
harsh, you can always just ask me. You
can say something like, "Did you mean that
to be that harsh?" or "What do you mean by
that exactly?" rather than just slinging
insults from the start. If you ask me to
clarify, I will. I would even apologize
for the confusion if anyone misunderstood
me and took what I said the wrong way.
However, when someone starts slinging
insults from the start, then I am not
going to apologize to
them.
How so? Well, originally you wrote about
what 'she did to her poor baby' (to
paraphrase) and now you have backed off
with all kind of niceties. So maybe you
did learn something afterall.
Did I ask for an apology? Why would you
even say that? ?
And who slung insults? "You should have
learned this in kindergarten..." "you
need a therapist"...etc.
I was just pointing out facts, like your
lack of tact, which you haven't refuted at
all. Ya lacked tact. C'mon, admit it.
And now, if I have you correct, you're
saying I should've asked you if you meant
to be harsh instead of just assuming you
meant what you said. How dare I.
There is something about this that sticks
to you like glue, but again, it's not a
matter of disagreeing with you; it's
knowing what is the right way to treat
people and what is not. There is not an
opinion involved in that.
Are you prochoice? I am under the
impression that you are. If so, and I
profusely apoloize if I am wrong, could
you please address how you as a prochoicer
can support this person's decision to have
an abortion, and then turn around and
lecture her about what she did to 'her
poor baby'?
Eiri already addressed this with her
opinion; I'm interested in yours.
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Llewellyn
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 1743 Location: NY
Posted: 06-14-07 18:52pm
No, you are not interested in my opinion.
You are only interested in fighting for
the sake of fighting. Give it up, Birch.
Grow up or get some therapy.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4160 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 159
Thanked:16
Posted: 06-15-07 00:32am
Oh, geez. Now I'm "fighting". I guess if
you're wrong and have no place to go, it's
not a debate, it's "fighting for the sake
of fighting".
I find it mildly ironic that the person
who would impart guilt on a suicidal
seventeen year old would tell someone to
"grow up or get some therapy".
As if getting therapy showed you as a
person with faults- a weak person. That's
somewhat elitist, isn't it? Perhaps a
person truly intuned with themselves would
seek out therapy to help them deal with
the inevitable frustration of dealing with
lesser members of humanity.
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3843 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
