Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts. Posted: 07-05-07 09:41am
MYTHS ABOUT ABORTION
Myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a
foundational genetic fact that your body
has your DNA, your fetus' DNA is
different.
Myth 2. The fetus is a parasite.
Busted 2. A parasite, by biological
definition, must be a different species.
No thinking person would consider apples
as parasites of an apple tree. (However a
worm in the apple is indeed a parasite).
The biological defintion of parasite can
be found at http://www.thefreedi
ctionary.com/parasit... . Some
committed abortion supporters cling to the
etymological definition of "one who is
sustained by another without benefit to
the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month
old baby is as much of a parasite as a
fetus. Only the most despicable monsters
in world history killed the very young.
Myth 3. You can't legislate women from
getting abortions by making abortions
illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is
also illegal, but thousands of people are
killed by drunk drivers every year - only
an imbecile would suggest that we legalize
driving drunk because people "will do it
anyhow".
Myth 4. You can't tell a person what to do
with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws
regarding public health and decency (Ex.
you can't ride the city bus while in the
nude.)
Myth 5. Fetuses aren't human.
Busted 5. 46 human chromosomes couldn't
possibly be anything else. Tyrants and
slavers throughout history always
rationalized their crimes by denying the
humanity of their victims. Radical
supporters of abortion point out that on
rare occasions terrible genetic diseases
like Turner's Syndrome cause people to be
born with 45, 47 or 48 chromosomes and
that these people are "not human". While
these genetic diseases have pronounced
physical and mental manifestations, they
do not change the species of the affected
person.
Myth 6. The fetus cannot survive on its
own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six
month old infant would quickly die left to
its own abilities. Again, only history's
worst monsters killed infants.
Myth 7. Many Christians get abortions.
Busted 7. Many Christians owned slaves -
didn't make it right.
Myth 8. Making abortion illegal would
force women who were raped or pregnant
through incest or whose health was
threatened to give birth.
Busted 8. Before Roe v Wade many states
allowed for court ordered abortions for
this very specific set of circumstances. A
system for quick and condfidential
judicial review for terminating these
troubled pregancies would ensure the
taking of human life has its day in court.
Myth 9. Human eggs and sperm are alive.
Menstration and masturbation are the same
as abortion.
Busted 9. So are the cells of the lining
of our mouth - but like the egg or sperm,
they independently could never be the
start of a new human being.
Myth 10. The fetus isn't human because it
isn't sentient.
Busted 10. Neither are people who are
unconscious, and no one would suggest
killing a person because they are
unconscious is legal.
Myth 11. If you don't like abortions,
don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery,
don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the
abortion version won't work today.
Myth 12. If abortion is made illegal,
dangerous "back alley" abortions will
thrive.
Busted 12. The availability and efficacy
of modern contraceptives can make unwanted
pregnancies as likely as winning the
lottery.
Myth 13. You can't support the death
penalty and be pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of
a capital crime should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law
|
AyaMiyaki
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Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 8226 Location: Floating on a cloud, United States
Thanks: 159
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Re: Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts. Posted: 07-05-07 11:27am
milletics
wrote:
Myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a
foundational genetic fact that your body
has your DNA, your fetus' DNA is
different.
.The z/e/f still requires your body to
develop and grow. A woman must sacrifice
her body for a number of months to sustain
this growth. That is what pro-choice means
when they say "it is my body". We believe
a woman should have the right to choose
what she does with her own body. If she
chooses to sustain a pregnancy, she should
do it. If she chooses not to, she
shouldn't have to.
Quote:
Myth 2. The fetus
is a parasite.
Busted 2. A parasite, by biological
definition, must be a different species.
No thinking person would consider apples
as parasites of an apple tree. (However a
worm in the apple is indeed a parasite).
The biological defintion of parasite can
be found at http://www.thefreedi
ctionary.com/parasit... . Some
committed abortion supporters cling to the
etymological definition of "one who is
sustained by another without benefit to
the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month old
baby is as much of a parasite as a
fetus. Only the most despicable
monsters in world history killed the very
young.
.I'll only address the bold quote, as
.Eiri has already argued the
different-species point with you. A 6
month old baby does not require his/her
mother for oxygen. A 6 month old baby does
not require only his/her mother for
nutrients - anyone is capable of feeding
the baby a bottle and caring for it. This
is not true with pregnancy, however. A 6
month old baby is not a parasite in any
respect. He/she is simply lacking the
means to care for him/herself because of
age. To compare this state with parasitism
is, at best, a leap.
Quote:
Myth 3. You can't
legislate women from getting abortions by
making abortions illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is
also illegal, but thousands of people are
killed by drunk drivers every year - only
an imbecile would suggest that we legalize
driving drunk because people "will do it
anyhow".
.Driving while intoxicated poses a danger
to the public. The driver could hit a
school bus, a bus stop, a police cruiser,
or an old couple - not to mention the
danger he/she poses him/herself. This has
nothing to do with abortion, however,
where the ending of a pregnancy affects
the woman and possibly her family. Again,
the comparison is a leap.
Quote:
Myth 4. You can't
tell a person what to do with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws
regarding public health and decency (Ex.
you can't ride the city bus while in the
nude.)
.Please stop comparing things that have
nothing to do with each other. Abortion
has nothing to do with public health and
decency. It's everything to do with her
body and her choice about what happens to
it. To force a woman to sacrifice her body
against
her will to sustain a pregnancy
would be to turn her into an incubator. It
would be the government telling us that
they know better for us than we do. No one
should be forced to undertake a pregnancy
and the dangers of labor and birth against
their will. Therefore, you cannot
force a woman to sustain a pregnancy.
Quote:
Myth 5. Fetuses
aren't human.
Busted 5. 46 human chromosomes couldn't
possibly be anything else. Tyrants and
slavers throughout history always
rationalized their crimes by denying the
humanity of their victims. Radical
supporters of abortion point out that on
rare occasions terrible genetic diseases
like Turner's Syndrome cause people to be
born with 45, 47 or 48 chromosomes and
that these people are "not human". While
these genetic diseases have pronounced
physical and mental manifestations, they
do not change the species of the affected
person.
.You will not see anyone here claim that a
z/e/f is not human. That is not in
question. Because what are we birthing,
puppies? What is in question is if the
z/e/f is a human being. Please review your
information and respond to actual claims.
Quote:
Myth 6. The fetus
cannot survive on its own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six
month old infant would quickly die left to
its own abilities. Again, only history's
worst monsters killed
infants.
.I've addressed this already, but .I'll
quickly review. The z/e/f cannot survive
outside its mother's body up until a
certain point. A 6 month old baby can be
cared for by any person. You will not find
anyone pro-infanticide here. You are, once
again, reaching.
Quote:
Myth 7. Many
Christians get abortions.
Busted 7. Many Christians owned slaves -
didn't make it
right.
.Again with comparing things that have
nothing to do with each other.
Quote:
Myth 8. Making
abortion illegal would force women who
were raped or pregnant through incest or
whose health was threatened to give
birth.
Busted 8. Before Roe v Wade many states
allowed for court ordered abortions for
this very specific set of circumstances. A
system for quick and condfidential
judicial review for terminating these
troubled pregancies would ensure the
taking of human life has its day in
court.
.So insted of having the right to go to a
clinic and quietly end their abortion
peacefully, you would have these women
further victimize themselves by throwing
themselves upon the mercy of a court and
praying that they get a ruling in their
favor? How disgusting.
Quote:
Myth 9. Human
eggs and sperm are alive. Menstration and
masturbation are the same as abortion.
Busted 9. So are the cells of the lining
of our mouth - but like the egg or sperm,
they independently could never be the
start of a new human
being.
.I've never once heard anyone claim that
menstration is the same as abortion. I'm
not sure where you're getting that from.
I've certainly never heard the debators
here make that claim.
Quote:
Myth 10. The
fetus isn't human because it isn't
sentient.
Busted 10. Neither are people who are
unconscious, and no one would suggest
killing a person because they are
unconscious is
legal.
.Again, pro-choice never said z/e/f's are
not human. They aren't human beings.
Unconcious people are born and
are recognized as citizens of their
countries, therefore enjoy the rights a
priviledges as everyone else. Z/e/f are
not recognized citizens. Once again you
compare things that have nothing to do
with each other.
Quote:
Myth 11. If you
don't like abortions, don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery,
don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the
abortion version won't work
today.
.Slavery forced borne persons to do things
against their will. Abortion laws force
borne persons to do things against their
will. Does that sound familiar? Wow, see
how easy it is to twist things around and
make your point look good?
Now .I'll address your actual point.
Slavery affected other people and their
rights. Abortion affects the woman, and
possibly her family. A woman having an
abortion has no effect on her next door
neighbor, on the high school football
team's win/lose record, on who is
currently running for president. Her right
to make a decision on what to do with her
body has no impact on you, either. And, of
course, her right to her body has nothing
to do with slavery.
Quote:
Myth 12. If
abortion is made illegal, dangerous "back
alley" abortions will thrive.
Busted 12. The availability and efficacy
of modern contraceptives can make unwanted
pregnancies as likely as winning the
lottery.
http://www.pueblo.gs
a.gov/cic_text/healt...
Perhaps you should review the
effectiveness of modern contraception. You
should also review the possible side
effects. Furthermore, we have a poster
here by the name of .Carifairy (pretty
sure it's her, correct me if .I'm wrong
someone) who has had multiple pregnancies
despite proper contraception use.
And what happens to teenagers, by the way?
Many of them have the ".I'm invincible,
nothing will happen to me" mindset and
don't bother with contraception at all.
What happens to them when they become
pregnant? Too bad, so sad, should have
used a condom? Who do you really think
would be risking their lives at these
back-alley butchers? Take a good long
think about that and get back to me.
Quote:
Myth 13. You
can't support the death penalty and be
pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of
a capital crime should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the
law
.This is just ridiculous. Pro-life is not
necessarily just anti-abortion. Pro-life
is pro-life. People who are truly
pro-life are concerned about all living
persons, not just z/e/f's. They are
concerned with children in foster care and
adoption agencies (remember those poor
little babies you want to save from
abortions? Some of them grow up to be
lonely sad children in foster care). They
are concerned with the homeless and
battered women shelters. They are
concerned with people on death row
(*gasp!*).
If you're anti-abortion, just call
yourself anti-abortion. Don't insult
pro-life's views if you don't agree with
them.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 07-05-07 12:06pm
abortion affects the mother and maybe
family???
So it doesnt affect the child growing
inside.
I notice how you conveniently not mention
that it ends a life.
Again as said before; you are arguing to
keep killing a human life legal.
|
meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2122 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Re: Pro-abortions Arguments Vs. the Facts. Posted: 07-05-07 12:11pm
milletics
wrote:
MYTHS ABOUT ABORTION
Myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a
foundational genetic fact that your body
has your DNA, your fetus' DNA is
different.
Myth 2. The fetus is a parasite.
Busted 2. A parasite, by biological
definition, must be a different species.
No thinking person would consider apples
as parasites of an apple tree. (However a
worm in the apple is indeed a parasite).
The biological defintion of parasite can
be found at http://www.thefreedi
ctionary.com/parasit... . Some
committed abortion supporters cling to the
etymological definition of "one who is
sustained by another without benefit to
the host". Taken in that sense, a 6 month
old baby is as much of a parasite as a
fetus. Only the most despicable monsters
in world history killed the very young.
Myth 3. You can't legislate women from
getting abortions by making abortions
illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is
also illegal, but thousands of people are
killed by drunk drivers every year - only
an imbecile would suggest that we legalize
driving drunk because people "will do it
anyhow".
Myth 4. You can't tell a person what to do
with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws
regarding public health and decency (Ex.
you can't ride the city bus while in the
nude.)
Myth 5. Fetuses aren't human.
Busted 5. 46 human chromosomes couldn't
possibly be anything else. Tyrants and
slavers throughout history always
rationalized their crimes by denying the
humanity of their victims. Radical
supporters of abortion point out that on
rare occasions terrible genetic diseases
like Turner's Syndrome cause people to be
born with 45, 47 or 48 chromosomes and
that these people are "not human". While
these genetic diseases have pronounced
physical and mental manifestations, they
do not change the species of the affected
person.
Myth 6. The fetus cannot survive on its
own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six
month old infant would quickly die left to
its own abilities. Again, only history's
worst monsters killed infants.
Myth 7. Many Christians get abortions.
Busted 7. Many Christians owned slaves -
didn't make it right.
Myth 8. Making abortion illegal would
force women who were raped or pregnant
through incest or whose health was
threatened to give birth.
Busted 8. Before Roe v Wade many states
allowed for court ordered abortions for
this very specific set of circumstances. A
system for quick and condfidential
judicial review for terminating these
troubled pregancies would ensure the
taking of human life has its day in court.
Myth 9. Human eggs and sperm are alive.
Menstration and masturbation are the same
as abortion.
Busted 9. So are the cells of the lining
of our mouth - but like the egg or sperm,
they independently could never be the
start of a new human being.
Myth 10. The fetus isn't human because it
isn't sentient.
Busted 10. Neither are people who are
unconscious, and no one would suggest
killing a person because they are
unconscious is legal.
Myth 11. If you don't like abortions,
don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery,
don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the
abortion version won't work today.
Myth 12. If abortion is made illegal,
dangerous "back alley" abortions will
thrive.
Busted 12. The availability and efficacy
of modern contraceptives can make unwanted
pregnancies as likely as winning the
lottery.
Myth 13. You can't support the death
penalty and be pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of
a capital crime should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the
law
Excellent!! I applaud you.. Hands
clapping smile on face.. Good one!!
|
AyaMiyaki
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 8226 Location: Floating on a cloud, United States
Thanks: 159
Thanked:14
Posted: 07-05-07 12:21pm
milletics
wrote:
abortion affects the mother
and maybe family???
So it doesnt affect the child growing
inside.
I notice how you conveniently not mention
that it ends a life.
Again as said before; you are arguing to
keep killing a human life
legal.
yes, it ends a life. I don't deny that. I
feel it's the woman's choice whether to
continue a pregnancy or end it. I
recognize that her having the ability to
choose does not affect me. I simply want
her to remain able to choose what's best
for her and her situation. I don't pretend
to know what's better for her, and I don't
pretend to put more emphasis on the z/e/f
than on her rights.
I'm not comfortable with the idea of
abortion, and I don't believe I would ever
have one myself, but I would never presume
to tell another woman what to do with her
own body. I am not pro-abortion - I am
pro-choice.
|
Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 07-05-07 16:40pm
milletics
wrote:
myth 1. It's "my body".
Busted 1. No it's not. It is a
foundational genetic fact that your body
has your dna, your fetus' dna is
different.
Yes it is my body, it is my body that is
pregnant and will have to give birth.
That is what is meant by 'it's my body'.
milletics
wrote:
Myth 3. You can't legislate
women from getting abortions by making
abortions illegal.
Busted 3. Driving while intoxicated is
also illegal, but thousands of people are
killed by drunk drivers every year - only
an imbecile would suggest that we legalize
driving drunk because people "will do it
anyhow".
It isn't just because women will do it
anyhow. It is because they will die doing
it. Anyone with real respect and/or
gratitude for "precious life" would not
want to see legislation that would mean
more life lost.
milletics
wrote:
Myth 4. You can't tell a
person what to do with their body.
Busted 4. Wrong. There are many laws
regarding public health and decency (ex.
You can't ride the city bus while in the
nude.)
There are also laws protecting personal
autonomy, bodily rights, and privacy.
milletics
wrote:
Myth 6. The fetus cannot
survive on its own.
Busted 6. Neither can infants - a six
month old infant would quickly die left to
its own abilities. Again, only history's
worst monsters killed
infants.
Infants and fetuses aren't comparable in
that respect. They are not dependent in
the same way. Infants don't necessarily
depend directly on a woman's body in the
way a fetus does.
milletics
wrote:
Myth 11. If you don't like
abortions, don't have one!
Busted 11. If you don't like slavery,
don't own one! Didn't work in 1865 - the
abortion version won't work
today.
You're still comparing caterpillars to
butterflies. Fetuses are not people in
the same respect that we are. Are you
saying that you'd be upset by a
miscarriage like you would be if a family
member died?
milletics
wrote:
Myth 13. You can't support
the death penalty and be pro-life.
Busted 13. Any unborn person convicted of
a capital crime should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the
law
That is an opinion, not a fact.
|
young Girl
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 13932 Location: everythings better in, texas USA
Posted: 07-05-07 16:46pm
point blak
the choice is up to the MOTHER of the
child not anyone else
so who are any of us to say if its right
or wrong?
its not our choice
its not our option
lets just leave it alone
reguardless of if its wrong or right
the person in the position gets to make
the call : keep it or destroy it
its all a big fight for nothing
there are no facts and there are no myths
because its an individual right that all
people have as human beings and i sont
think its up to any of us to decide if its
allowd or not for them
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 07-06-07 10:49am
None of these "myths" are reasons I am
prochoice.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 07-24-07 06:35am
the_girlfreind
wrote:
point blak
the choice is up to the MOTHER of the
child not anyone else
so who are any of us to say if its right
or wrong?
its not our choice
its not our option
lets just leave it alone
reguardless of if its wrong or right
the person in the position gets to make
the call : keep it or destroy it
its all a big fight for nothing
there are no facts and there are no myths
because its an individual right that all
people have as human beings and i sont
think its up to any of us to decide if its
allowd or not for
them
pedophilia. who's to say its right or
wrong. Oh you say it scars the child!
Here! Here!
Thats why its very dangerous to take God
outta the government and out of your
lives. There is no longer a moral
authority.
Next will be euthanasia of the elderly.
Hitler did it.
Get some morals. our forefathers had them.
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3744 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 72
Thanked:65
Posted: 07-24-07 06:42am
milletics
wrote:
Get some morals. our
forefathers had
them.
Would these be the same forefathers who
stole the native Americans' land and
murdered them? Or perhaps the same
forefathers who hanged people as witches
because theydidn't quite 'fit in'? Surely
you don't mean the forefathers who thought
it perfectly acceptable to kidnap and
enslave people because of their skin
colour?
Yeah, our forefathers had great morals.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 07-24-07 09:19am
I cannot take anything a Creationist says
seriously.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 07-24-07 09:37am
Birch
wrote:
I cannot take anything a
Creationist says
seriously.
too bad.
you would learn alot. And possibly your
clouded mind would be set free.
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 07-24-07 09:39am
Jules
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
Get some morals. our
forefathers had
them.
Would these be the same forefathers who
stole the native Americans' land and
murdered them? Or perhaps the same
forefathers who hanged people as witches
because theydidn't quite 'fit in'? Surely
you don't mean the forefathers who thought
it perfectly acceptable to kidnap and
enslave people because of their skin
colour?
Yeah, our forefathers had great
morals.
yes. our forefathers did. Our founding
fathers did. What others may have done is
not the fault of our founders
|
milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
Posted: 07-24-07 09:39am
Birch
wrote:
I cannot take anything a
Creationist says
seriously.
And I cant take the words of a
pro-abortionist seriously.
|
Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3744 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 72
Thanked:65
Posted: 07-24-07 09:49am
milletics
wrote:
And I cant take the words of a
pro-abortionist
seriously.
Yeah Birch is always trying to get people
to have abortions. It's, like, good for
your health or something
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 07-24-07 13:48pm
Yes, let's please ignore all the facts and
try to jam some of the irrefutable ones
into religion's distorted, made-up view of
society.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 07-24-07 15:59pm
milletics
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
I cannot take anything a
Creationist says
seriously.
too bad.
you would learn alot. And possibly your
clouded mind would be set
free.
You're right.
Alot.
Of nonsense.
Actually, all snideness aside, I do learn
alot from people who believe as you do.
For example, just how far into crazy
someone can go, and still not be
committed. How much the human mind can be
brainwashed into believing fantastical
things, yet when reality is smack in front
of them they refuse to even listen.
milletics
wrote:
And I cant take the words of
a pro-abortionist
seriously.
Cool.
*Twiddles thumbs*
Um, what is that, anyways?
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
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Posted: 07-24-07 16:30pm
Birch
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
And I cant take the words of
a pro-abortionist
seriously.
Cool.
*Twiddles thumbs*
Um, what is that,
anyways?
I dunno, never heard of one...
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 07-25-07 01:08am
Eiri
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
milletics
wrote:
And I cant take the words of
a pro-abortionist
seriously.
Cool.
*Twiddles thumbs*
Um, what is that,
anyways?
I dunno, never heard of
one...
Oh, yeah, *smacks head*, he must be
talking about the overall wearing
feminists who walk the streets passing out
coathangers and literature about the evils
of child rearing.
Gosh, what was I thinking??
|
Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
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Posted: 07-25-07 18:10pm
Lol. Gee, I've never seen any of them
before... I sure hope my Oby-Gyn's office
isn't patrolled when I go Friday by
pro-lifers... I'm in Florida, so you never
know. It's darned conservative down here.
I don't think the place I go to even does
abortions at all, but they DO sell birth
control, and as Guest has told us, all
birth control is eeeevil.
Hands
clapping smile on face.. Good one!!
