A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn
human.
Yes, you have the right to defend the
unborn. You do NOT have the right to
dictate what medication I take, what I do
with my body or what I do with my husband
in the bedroom.
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Oh, and you assumed that I
don't want to reduce unwanted pregnancies.
Now, why is
that?
I don't recall ever saying "Yo,
NeutralUsername doesn't want to reduce
unplanned pregnancies, y'all!"
What I DO recall saying is that common
prolife tactics is to deny women access to
birth control and elective sterilization.
I feel that this is largely due to the
"MUST BREED" mentality cooked up by white
supremacists that are afraid of being
out-bred by the "darkies" in the fear that
the Great White Race will vanish if white
women don't get out from behind their
desks and stay home to pop out babies as
they should. It's very Nazi-ish and it's
very real. There are actually people that
think white women should breed at all
costs. Hitler outlawed abortion for white
women but made it mandatory for Jews. I
won't carry on lest I fall into another
common and distasteful prolife tactic of
comparing the mass and deliberate
slaughter of an entire race to a woman's
reproductive choice.
How do you feel about the possibility of a
draft? Would you sit silent if young men
were forced to die for someone else's
beliefs?
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-10-08 15:19pm
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's life.
|
Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1171 Location: ,
Thanks: 21
Thanked:8
Posted: 06-10-08 15:26pm
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's
life.
Again you ignore the issue to engage in
fallacious debate tactics. The crime of
homicide is not being discussed. The legal
option to abort is.
Now kindly answer the question answered
and stop trying to divert the point.
If you can that is.
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-10-08 15:32pm
Darkmoon
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn
human.
Yes, you have the right to defend the
unborn. You do NOT have the right to
dictate what medication I take, what I do
with my body or what I do with my husband
in the bedroom.
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Oh, and you assumed that I
don't want to reduce unwanted pregnancies.
Now, why is
that?
I don't recall ever saying "Yo,
NeutralUsername doesn't want to reduce
unplanned pregnancies, y'all!"
What I DO recall saying is that common
prolife tactics is to deny women access to
birth control and elective sterilization.
I feel that this is largely due to the
"MUST BREED" mentality cooked up by white
supremacists that are afraid of being
out-bred by the "darkies" in the fear that
the Great White Race will vanish if white
women don't get out from behind their
desks and stay home to pop out babies as
they should. It's very Nazi-ish and it's
very real. There are actually people that
think white women should breed at all
costs. Hitler outlawed abortion for white
women but made it mandatory for Jews. I
won't carry on lest I fall into another
common and distasteful prolife tactic of
comparing the mass and deliberate
slaughter of an entire race to a woman's
reproductive choice.
How do you feel about the possibility of a
draft? Would you sit silent if young men
were forced to die for someone else's
beliefs?
You mean you don't remember saying this?:
"If you dislike the thought of being
sexist than perhaps you should work with
prochoicers to improve ways to reduce
unwanted pregnancy, like Anniek." That is
called an ASSUMPTION. You are IMPLYING
that I don't do that. You don't actually
have to outright say something! Or did you
mean pro-lifers as a whole?
I have to say this: NOT ALL PRO-LIFERS are
extremists. You are acting as if they are
like this as a whole. It is insulting. I
am apro-lifer who is 100% FOR birth
control and sterilization. I have come
across many pro-lifers with the same
views. Sure, worry about the extremists.
But, why lump us all together? Oh, white
supremicists do not count. They are not
pro-life or pro-choice. What do they have
to do with this debate?
Again, pro-lifers do not just simply see
abortion as a medical procedure. It is
much more than that. It involves the
killing of a human that is not allowed to
be born. How many simple medical
procedures involve that?
|
Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1171 Location: ,
Thanks: 21
Thanked:8
Posted: 06-10-08 16:12pm
Nuetral.. if you carefully read each
statement they do not match at all. YOU
are the one making assumptions.
Now..
Did you come to ehealth to debate a topic
or merely to insult, make assumptions and
obfuscate topics? If you are here to
debate please post a reasonable,
defensible arguement without ad homien
attacks, please support your position with
facts and quote sources.
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-11-08 09:35am
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's
life.
Again you ignore the issue to engage in
fallacious debate tactics. The crime of
homicide is not being discussed. The legal
option to abort is.
Now kindly answer the question answered
and stop trying to divert the point.
If you can that
is.
You didn't get my point? If a person
shouldn't be personally affected by an
abortion, then no one should be personally
effected by ANY death of a born human that
they didn't know either. I just don't
understand why some of you guys don't
realize that we see abortion as more than
just the removal of a pregnancy. We see it
as a DEATH of an unborn human! So, I
compared to other kinds of death. Prove to
me that someone SHOULDN'T be impacted by
the death of a fetal human but it is okay
to feel impacted by the death of a born
human.
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 06-11-08 10:06am
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's
life.
Again you ignore the issue to engage in
fallacious debate tactics. The crime of
homicide is not being discussed. The legal
option to abort is.
Now kindly answer the question answered
and stop trying to divert the point.
If you can that
is.
You didn't get my point? If a person
shouldn't be personally affected by an
abortion, then no one should be personally
effected by ANY death of a born human that
they didn't know either. I just don't
understand why some of you guys don't
realize that we see abortion as more than
just the removal of a pregnancy. We see it
as a DEATH of an unborn human! So, I
compared to other kinds of death. Prove to
me that someone SHOULDN'T be impacted by
the death of a fetal human but it is okay
to feel impacted by the death of a born
human.
Kids die everyday worldwide because of
poverty, abuse, aids, or they were
orphaned at a young age.
Death of an unborn, does miscarriage
bother you? You really like avoiding
questions.....
You feel a certain way, I feel a certain
way but must I succumb to feel like you
because it is the only way? To enforce
someone to feel a certain way you are
forcing them against their will, the woman
who doesnt want to be pregnant does she
not have a right to feel the way she does.
NOT EVERYONE LIKES BEING PREGNANT god I
HATED it..
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 06-11-08 11:15am
NeutralUsername
wrote:
...
Prove to me that someone SHOULDN'T be
impacted by the death of a fetal human but
it is okay to feel impacted by the death
of a born
human.
Only if you prove why you "should" care if
woman X has an abortion.
|
aochriss
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Posts: 422
Thanks: 71
Thanked:117
Posted: 06-11-08 13:54pm
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
I can tell you why I think that. I
believe most pro-lifers don't care about
reducing unwanted pregnancies because if
they did, they wouldn't be trying to make
abortion illegal they'd be trying to make
it unnecessary. They would be handing
out condoms on street corners and working
with pro-choice people to get better (or
any) sex education in schools, etc., etc.
Just making abortion illegal doesn't
reduce abortion OR unwanted pregnancies.
It only harms women by making it dangerous
to obtain the medical care they need.
Again, pro-lifers do not just simply see
abortion as a medical procedure. It is
much more than that. It involves the
killing of a human that is not allowed to
be born. How many simple medical
procedures involve
that?
Do you know how many things cause zefs not
to be born?
Breastfeeding
Taking some medications
Vitamin C
Coffee
etc., etc.
ALSO, the very act of procreation kills
more zefs than it causes to be born. So
for every 1 birth, many more fertilized
eggs and embryos died than were born.
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-11-08 14:56pm
diamondsz
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's
life.
Again you ignore the issue to engage in
fallacious debate tactics. The crime of
homicide is not being discussed. The legal
option to abort is.
Now kindly answer the question answered
and stop trying to divert the point.
If you can that
is.
You didn't get my point? If a person
shouldn't be personally affected by an
abortion, then no one should be personally
effected by ANY death of a born human that
they didn't know either. I just don't
understand why some of you guys don't
realize that we see abortion as more than
just the removal of a pregnancy. We see it
as a DEATH of an unborn human! So, I
compared to other kinds of death. Prove to
me that someone SHOULDN'T be impacted by
the death of a fetal human but it is okay
to feel impacted by the death of a born
human.
Kids die everyday worldwide because of
poverty, abuse, aids, or they were
orphaned at a young age.
Death of an unborn, does miscarriage
bother you? You really like avoiding
questions.....
You feel a certain way, I feel a certain
way but must I succumb to feel like you
because it is the only way? To enforce
someone to feel a certain way you are
forcing them against their will, the woman
who doesnt want to be pregnant does she
not have a right to feel the way she does.
NOT EVERYONE LIKES BEING PREGNANT god I
HATED it..
ALL DEATH BOTHERS ME. Abortion is not a
black and white issue. It is not simply
the removal of a pregnancy! Fetuses die.
Infants die. Toddlers die. Teenagers die.
Adults die. Why should anyone expect
anyone else to not feel ANYTHING when a
fetal human dies? Why is it not okay but
okay for OTHER humans who happen to be
born?
Why aren't people understanding this?
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-11-08 14:58pm
aochriss
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
I can tell you why I think that. I
believe most pro-lifers don't care about
reducing unwanted pregnancies because if
they did, they wouldn't be trying to make
abortion illegal they'd be trying to make
it unnecessary. They would be handing
out condoms on street corners and working
with pro-choice people to get better (or
any) sex education in schools, etc., etc.
Just making abortion illegal doesn't
reduce abortion OR unwanted pregnancies.
It only harms women by making it dangerous
to obtain the medical care they
need.
So, you made an assumption about me. Where
did you base that opinion on? On the fact
that I'm pro-life? That it?
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-11-08 15:00pm
aochriss
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Again, pro-lifers do not just simply see
abortion as a medical procedure. It is
much more than that. It involves the
killing of a human that is not allowed to
be born. How many simple medical
procedures involve
that?
Do you know how many things cause zefs not
to be born?
Breastfeeding
Taking some medications
Vitamin C
Coffee
etc., etc.
ALSO, the very act of procreation kills
more zefs than it causes to be born. So
for every 1 birth, many more fertilized
eggs and embryos died than were
born.
Lots of things cause born humans to die
also. Sometimes it's the fault of someone
else. Sometimes it's natural. Sometimes
from freak accidents. Just like with the
unborn!
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 06-11-08 15:44pm
NeutralUsername
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
A pro-lifer ALSO has the right to try to
defend the unborn. Unlike pro-choicers,
they do not see abortion as just a medical
procedure. They see it as an unjust death
of an unborn human.
Oh, and you assumed that I don't want to
reduce unwanted pregnancies. Now, why is
that?
Ok.. back to my never answered question.
Please read it carefully. Do not throw in
your own interpretation..
How did my
abortion PERSONALLY affect you? Please
provide a direct personal impact on your
life, since it was a personal event you
won't have any problems also providing the
date.
This is simply to prove the so called pro
life grandstander really does not have an
actual arguement.
Please
proceed.
You're right. When ANY human is killed,
it doesn't affect anyone's life. Only for
those who KNOW the person. So, does that
mean homicide of a person who no one knows
about should be legal? Why not? Their
death would not have a persnal inpact on
anyone's
life.
Again you ignore the issue to engage in
fallacious debate tactics. The crime of
homicide is not being discussed. The legal
option to abort is.
Now kindly answer the question answered
and stop trying to divert the point.
If you can that
is.
You didn't get my point? If a person
shouldn't be personally affected by an
abortion, then no one should be personally
effected by ANY death of a born human that
they didn't know either. I just don't
understand why some of you guys don't
realize that we see abortion as more than
just the removal of a pregnancy. We see it
as a DEATH of an unborn human! So, I
compared to other kinds of death. Prove to
me that someone SHOULDN'T be impacted by
the death of a fetal human but it is okay
to feel impacted by the death of a born
human.
Kids die everyday worldwide because of
poverty, abuse, aids, or they were
orphaned at a young age.
Death of an unborn, does miscarriage
bother you? You really like avoiding
questions.....
You feel a certain way, I feel a certain
way but must I succumb to feel like you
because it is the only way? To enforce
someone to feel a certain way you are
forcing them against their will, the woman
who doesnt want to be pregnant does she
not have a right to feel the way she does.
NOT EVERYONE LIKES BEING PREGNANT god I
HATED it..
ALL DEATH BOTHERS ME. Abortion is not a
black and white issue. It is not simply
the removal of a pregnancy! Fetuses die.
Infants die. Toddlers die. Teenagers die.
Adults die. Why should anyone expect
anyone else to not feel ANYTHING when a
fetal human dies? Why is it not okay but
okay for OTHER humans who happen to be
born?
Why aren't people understanding
this?
Its okay to feel that way but it is not
okay to make other people or to force
other people to feel the way you do, I
love my children but hey its not for
everyone and I can give a crash course on
parenting its not so beautiful. Alot of
people aren't ready to be parents why wont
people understand that.
|
Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3943 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 121
Thanked:12
Posted: 06-11-08 16:02pm
NeutralUsername
wrote:
...Why should anyone expect anyone else to
not feel ANYTHING when a fetal human dies?
Why is it not okay but okay for OTHER
humans who happen to be born?
Who said that? Because you're the only
one saying it.
It's one thing to "feel something" it's
another to stand on the street, take
pictures of women going for surgical
procedures, lie, advocate for decreased
autonomy of a single gender, manipulate,
stereotype, and coerce.
aochriss
wrote:
I can tell you why I think that. I
believe most pro-lifers don't care about
reducing unwanted pregnancies because if
they did, they wouldn't be trying to make
abortion illegal they'd be trying to make
it unnecessary. They would be handing
out condoms on street corners and working
with pro-choice people to get better (or
any) sex education in schools, etc., etc.
Just making abortion illegal doesn't
reduce abortion OR unwanted pregnancies.
It only harms women by making it dangerous
to obtain the medical care they
need.
Nails it.
|
Moo
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: London
Thanks: 21
Thanked:110
Posted: 06-12-08 04:12am
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Abortion is not a black and
white issue.
true, but you're seeing it as black and
white from the standpoint of the woman -
it isn't black and white at all, you know
NOTHING about the reasoning behind a woman
choosing abortion so what makes you think
you have any right to judge?
NeutralUsername
wrote:
It is not simply the
removal of a pregnancy! Fetuses
die.
As do embryos - do you think pro-choice do
not understand what abortion is? Newsflash
- we do!
|
NeutralUsername
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 119 Location: , United States
Thanks: 10
Thanked:0
Posted: 06-12-08 09:40am
Moo
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Abortion is not a black and
white issue.
true, but you're seeing it as black and
white from the standpoint of the woman -
it isn't black and white at all, you know
NOTHING about the reasoning behind a woman
choosing abortion so what makes you think
you have any right to judge?
NeutralUsername
wrote:
It is not simply the
removal of a pregnancy! Fetuses
die.
As do embryos - do you think pro-choice do
not understand what abortion is? Newsflash
- we do!
Ha! I've come across many pro-choicers who
simply see it as a removal of tissue, NOT
the death of a developing human. Don't get
me started on the pro-choicers I've seen
who tried to claim that a fetus isn't
human or alive.
The ones who say, "If you don't like
abortion, then don't have one" cannot
possibly see it as more than just a
removal of a pregnancy.
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 06-12-08 10:27am
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Moo
wrote:
NeutralUsername
wrote:
Abortion is not a black and
white issue.
true, but you're seeing it as black and
white from the standpoint of the woman -
it isn't black and white at all, you know
NOTHING about the reasoning behind a woman
choosing abortion so what makes you think
you have any right to judge?
NeutralUsername
wrote:
It is not simply the
removal of a pregnancy! Fetuses
die.
As do embryos - do you think pro-choice do
not understand what abortion is? Newsflash
- we do!
Ha! I've come across many pro-choicers who
simply see it as a removal of tissue, NOT
the death of a developing human. Don't get
me started on the pro-choicers I've seen
who tried to claim that a fetus isn't
human or alive.
The ones who say, "If you don't like
abortion, then don't have one" cannot
possibly see it as more than just a
removal of a
pregnancy.
Dont have one its simply stated. It is
human and it is ALIVE ALOT of us can admit
that but what is th difference between the
two.....
A Z/e/f is not sentient(no conscious) it
doesn't even feel pain or emotion until
later in the pregnancy, IT feeds on the
mother, takes away her energy, her
nutrients etc. so although we are human
there is a difference, a difference in
characteristic, its like saying we're
mammals but the difference between us and
them is the fact we are conscious.
We're all human yet were all different, so
how can we be treated the same its not
possible.
|
oopoopoop
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 1250 Location: ,
Thanks: 42
Thanked:2
Posted: 06-12-08 11:03am
I've often said, "it's human, and it's
alive -- and that's exactly why I don't
want it inside ME" !
|
diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3173 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 74
Thanked:104
Posted: 06-12-08 11:18am
oopoopoop
wrote:
I've often said, "it's
human, and it's alive -- and that's
exactly why I don't want it inside ME"
!
